Roller problem

P

Printermike

Member
Anyone run into this problem?

I have a Hamada 665 with Crestline damps. The satellite head developed a water problem. Too much water on the edge of the plate on the operator side. Have totally rebuilt head. Bushings, bearings, rollers. Problem remains. Burnt out 3 water rollers. 2 within just one day. Rollers pit and rubber goes all over. We're using Syn-Tac rollers. Mechanic (ex-Hamada dealership owner) is throwing his hands up. No problems on front head.

Has anyone had a problem recently with Syn-Tac rollers on small offset presses?

Mike
 
If the water nips are as tight as you say, the water may instead be coming from an overflowing pan due to the bottle set too high, or the bottle has a leak (water or air). Try switching the bottles.

Could the water pan have a leak? Is the water pan level? Does it leak just sitting there without running?

Do you have a water hose from the sink going to that side of the press? (ran out of ideas).

Al
 
Thanks for the reply Al. Water pan, bottle & hose checked. While running we see no water spitting
from rollers. All roller strips checked & re-checked. All things point to a problem with the roller
compound. We've been through 4 rollers so far, but if they're all from the same lot # we're replacing the problem with the problem. Has us stumped.
 
Are you really checking the stripe on the Crestline rollers by putting ink on then, letting it distribute evenly, then stopping long enough for a stripe to form and then "taking an impression of the stripe" on a piece of paper for both ends to compare evenness?

Is the Crestline water form to plate stripe also being checked by inking it up? Is it too heavy on the flooding side? And you are checking the stripe to the plate with a plate on the cylinder, not a bare chrome cylinder?

What about dismantling the other "working" Crestline, and using the rollers from that one to install in the problem unit as a last resort test? And also assemble the "problem rollers into the "Good" unit to see if you can reproduce the problem there. If you haven't tried this, DO IT! What else is there to try?

Al
 
Another possibility is that the satellite Crestline is actually OK and the problem is a bad bearing or bushing on the satellite plate cylinder?

Al
 
Thanks Al,

We've set and reset all of the roller strips, ink & dampeners, including intermediate rollers. Everything is in spec. I still have the original Crestline card showing the 4mm stripe. Nice even stripes.

We changed the plate cylinder bearings when we split the head. Also changed out all of the bushings and bearings. Bought the press new in 1995. No problems, usual roller changes.

After all the things we tried nothing explains why the rollers are pitting and coming apart almost instantly. Also, main head is running fine. Not ink, chemical, wash up solution, plates etc.
Our only conclusion is the rollers. I'll have to see who make rollers other than Syn-Tack. Also learned Crestline rollers from Crestline actually are done by Syn-Tack.

Running out of ideas.
 
Thanks. I'm also going to see if Boetcher makes or can recover my cores. I use them on my Komori and we've been happy with their rollers.

Mike
 
Boetcher makes fine roller, and their price reflects it.

Lith-o-Roll has in stock rollers to ship ASAP.

Al
 
My mechanic was looking into alternatives. I'll mention Lith-o-Roll. Hopefully he'll answer my call. He's almost as frustrated as I am with this. I guess I'm more frustrated because I have the bills!
 
Use the KISS Method Keep It Simple

Use the KISS Method Keep It Simple

FYI:
Syn-Tac makes rollers for Accel Crestline’s they are the same company! I have Hamada’s running fine with these rollers. You mentioned the edge is wet. I would insure the rollers are centered properly and the water pan is not turning against the pan roller.
It is just a machine man any competent service rep should be able to fix it. Are the frames twisted?
OG
 
Just recently we had a bearing seize on the pan roller of our 40" that gave a similar symptom, flooding one side and chewing out a roller...your prob does sound more like bad batch of rollers but be worth having a looksie at the bearings and carriers on the crestline... i dont have a lot of experience with these dampening sys but my old company had a 3302 with that sys and it was faultless...
 
Some further thoughts on Saturday:

"After all the things we tried nothing explains why the rollers are pitting and coming apart almost instantly."

On re-reading this, one thing occur to me. I am not sure of this, but I vaguely remember that one or two of the gears on the roller shafts of the Crestline units have "roller clutch" bearings so that they drive in only one direction. If so, is it possible that one of these gears has been re-installed backwards?

Do the Crestline rollers turn smoothly when the press is turned by hand? Also, try removing the metering roller on the problem unit, and run the press under power at slow speed. Does everything turn smoothly? With the meter roller still removed, hold the pan roller while turning the press by hand. Is the pan roller being driven by the press?

The roller disintegration may be a separate problem from the problem of "Too much water on the edge of the plate on the operator side," mentioned in your first post. That may just be due to the satellite unit, or the Crestline on that unit, or the plate clamps on that unit not being centered. Thus water is not being taken away by the blanket and impression cylinders on that side.

Al
 
Hamada Cresline problems

Hamada Cresline problems

I've been through all of the fixes mentioned here. All good suggestions. Also asked mechanic about clutch in water unit. Checked out OK. Pan isn't contacting rollers. Pan roller only turns in one direction. Crestline unit was made square after splitting unit and installing new rollers.

We've isolated all of the variables, remedied the one by one, put in all new bearings, bushings, rollers. . . etc. The mechanic working on the press I've known for 20+ years and he used to own the Hamada dealership we bought the press from.

The only variable we haven't tried is a new roller company. I'll talk to the mechanic about ordering the Lith-o-Roll rollers.
 
"Pan roller only turns in one direction." By itself this only confirms the clutch is working, but in the correct direction? The wrong direction would explain your observation that "the rollers are pitting and coming apart almost instantly."

As the one who suggested the Lith-o-Roll source, I am no fan of Syn-Tac, but I am skeptical that their roller would disintegrate as quickly as you report.

You do not mention the result from trying to reproduce the problem on the other unit. In your situation, I would test that idea using the least damaged roller on hand. This is something you can do without the expense or the wait for another replacement, and it may save damaging another new roller with the problematic satelite unit.

Al
 
Last edited:
Turning direction of pan roller on Hamada 665 satellite unit.

I do not have a Hamada 665, nor do I have access to one. But what follows is based on information at this link:

http://www.sdprintingparts.com/Cat21Crestline.pdf, page 8.

The soft rubber pan roller is driven to turn in the clock direction opposite the forward direction of the plate cylinder, and therefore free to turn [Edit] in that same direction.

If the free turning direction of the pan roller on your satellite unit does not agree with this, then you have found the problem, and you should be able to see the the conflict that leads to the roller disintegration you report when the metering roller is installed and turning the press by hand in the normal forward direction.

No need to reproduce the problem on the main unit.

But if this does not solve the problem, then I will join you and your mechanic for a drink on my tab.

(The rest of you who have not contributed to this thread will have to pay for your own, but by all means join us.)

Al
 
Last edited:
Al,

I have checked each dampening unit. They each have an "outward" rolling nip between the pan and the metering rollers. Outward as opposed to "inward" rolling nip.

Mike
 
So far so good with the Hamada. Mechanic installed new rollers and so far no problems. Looks like the rollers were always the problem. He had Syn Tac make new set of dampener. He installed
new dampener rollers and so far so good.

Mike
 
I am glad to hear it's finally resolved. Did Syn Tac accept responsibility by adjusting your Statement accordingly (to say nothing of the mechanic's time and your down time)?

Al
 
I'm just getting together all the bills from the mechanic. He and I will have a discussion. He was the one who ordered the rollers. Glad problem is resolved, now I can have a talk with mech. regarding bills. He's a good guy and we've had over 20 years of doing business so I'm sure it will work out.

As far a Syn-Tac, they're on my list.
 
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