slow dry times - ink or fountain solution?

[Albert Noel]

Our ink supplier recently discontinued selling a particular line of inks we used from Hostmann- Steinberg (Rapida) and started sending us a different line from them.
We're now having drying issues, resulting offset and scuffing and overall long turn around times. we've turned to excess spray powder useage in order to keep things from sticking leading to extreme power buildups on first two units and slow turn around times due to increased scuffing and slow drying (especially on 4/4 work and even worse on uncoated stocks)

the ink in question is Hostmanns !nkredible Reflecta series. The press is a man roland 300 5 colour With technotrans recirc/chiller and the fountain solution is a mix of anchor emerald jr etch and ars-61 alcohol sub mixed 3 oz per gal each on fuji brillia metal plates. spray power is varn/day international r-27 (starch). IR dryer is used as well but I cant remember the exact pile temp. somewhere around 30C/85F. Issue happens on all stocks but but we run alot of sappi horizon gloss 80#


whats the general opinion of this ink? Could there be an incompatibility with our fountain solution in general? We've used this fountain solution for a long time and never had issues in the past when switching inks. i do have some green diamond from rycoline on hand to try out but id like to avoid changing press chemestry brands if possible.

any help would be great.

Albert

 

[brenm]

the ink you are using is made in India at Micro inks, but is not bad ink, talk to your ink rep about adding dries in to the ink to help with the drying issues

 

[Bob Peterson]

I have seen shops here in my region that have had these problems as well as rub problems on the finished pieces.

 

[Albert Noel]

im trying to convince my production manager that this ink needs to go, but hes not listening to me or the other operator (or the folder operator or the knife operator.....)

any recommendations?

 

[flyby54]

Our ink supplier recently discontinued selling a particular line of inks we used from Hostmann- Steinberg (Rapida) and started sending us a different line from them.
We're now having drying issues, resulting offset and scuffing and overall long turn around times. we've turned to excess spray powder useage in order to keep things from sticking leading to extreme power buildups on first two units and slow turn around times due to increased scuffing and slow drying (especially on 4/4 work and even worse on uncoated stocks)

the ink in question is Hostmanns !nkredible Reflecta series. The press is a man roland 300 5 colour With technotrans recirc/chiller and the fountain solution is a mix of anchor emerald jr etch and ars-61 alcohol sub mixed 3 oz per gal each on fuji brillia metal plates. spray power is varn/day international r-27 (starch). IR dryer is used as well but I cant remember the exact pile temp. somewhere around 30C/85F. Issue happens on all stocks but but we run alot of sappi horizon gloss 80#


whats the general opinion of this ink? Could there be an incompatibility with our fountain solution in general? We've used this fountain solution for a long time and never had issues in the past when switching inks. i do have some green diamond from rycoline on hand to try out but id like to avoid changing press chemestry brands if possible.

any help would be great.

Albert

Hi
I recommend that you go over the head of your production manager.
He seems to be a real idiot.
Could it be that he gets a nice Xmas gift off the ink company?
I have seen this happen before, to me in the past and the blame for all the problems you have always falls back on the printer.

 

[Albert Noel]

Hi
I recommend that you go over the head of your production manager.
He seems to be a real idiot.
Could it be that he gets a nice Xmas gift off the ink company?
I have seen this happen before, to me in the past and the blame for all the problems you have always falls back on the printer.

he's not an idiot, just very stubborn sometimes. he likes to be the one who makes the decision and doesn't like it at all when us press guys make our own decisions.

actually, the other day we were printing some magazine covers and the backs that were printed a few hours earlier were picking off on the impression cylinders after only 8000imp. i stopped production to clean and ended up showing him followed by a rather firm "I'm sending back all this ink and picking a new one" he actually agreed. so I'm going to get some samples, maybe veg/soy based ink to try. it's definitely an ink issue and not the fountain solution like i originally thought.

 

[Gerhard]

slow dry times - ink or fountain solution?

Changing the ink requires you also to change the fountain solution. You can't keep the same formula because each ink has different components.
Ask your dealer for the right fountain solution. Micro Ink (India) belongs to Huber Group in Germany and they control the quality of the ink. So be sure it is a good ink.
It depends on your requirements but Micro Inks also offers to supply you with the right ink for your usage. Ask your dealer to support you.

 

[RGPW17100]

Awhile back an ink manufacturer switched to soy without telling anyone and the results were real similar to what you are mentioning. Since then they used different types of agri based oils like corn and linseed and came up with a good working mix. Changing inks is a pain especially if you are certified. For Graycol ink the ink we used for the qualification runs is what we have to use unless we want to re certify. We have tried switching to three different inks and they have not measured up to what we use and we went back.

 

[Peter Welfare]

Hello Albert,

Over emulsification could cause all those problems. Has anyone else noticed that the new !nkcredible is much softer in viscosity that say the old rapida 1765. Even though this ink might pick up the same amount of water it is more easily emulsified. Not a solution I know but at least a possible explanation.

Peter

 

[Albert Noel]

Hello Albert,

Over emulsification could cause all those problems. Has anyone else noticed that the new !nkcredible is much softer in viscosity that say the old rapida 1765. Even though this ink might pick up the same amount of water it is more easily emulsified. Not a solution I know but at least a possible explanation.

Peter

i was thinking that same thing, but wasnt sure if it was leading to over emulsification. we used the rapida 1765 and it wasnt bad at all

 

[printr640]

we had this ink as well as other hostman products. one thing about the newer hostman inks is that it will use less water to run it
(this is very important to know when changing to the newer line).
overall the hostman line is not that great for our purposes so we went thru a month of testing differant inks. kohl and madden, hostman, flint, and a few others not worth mentioning. we ended up going with flint it works really well i am very happy with how well it runs for us.

 

[rbailleu]

anybody using superior ink

 

[dana]

I'm using ink from Superior, right now at my current place and previous place we used the Evolution MT line. It sets-up very well with I.R. At the previous place we also used their Biocitiy Lt line, which work very well on our 4color with no dryer. Both stay open inks.

 

[Paultheprinter]

Hi there,

i had problems like these with cheap inks espescially on uncoated stocks, the soloution was to switch to a 100%soya set which were supplied by sun chemicals and basf k&e sets, i was told that if you use a small amount mineral oil in the ink and dont have the other driers in the set optimised for your particular stock then the ink sits in the pores of the paper and stays duct fresh on the sheet, you then end up with rub issues and the rest.

Paul

 

[phil lewis]

If you are still in trouble call me at 647 968 6988 Albert.

 

[arfamoe]

See if you cant squeeze a bit more heat out of the IR dryer. I think pile temps of between 95-97f are optimum. Maybe this series of inks needs a bit more help.

 

[Albert Noel]

this isnt really much of an issue anymore now that we switched inks to the hostman inkredible rapida series. i'm still not happy with hostman in general but for the time being we are using it. still slow dry times on uncoated and seem to have to run the powder high most of the time. im still running the ir at 90ish, i guess i can turn it up to cook up the sheet a bit more, only i tend to have fit issues when i backup jobs after running temps that high.

 

[D Ink Man]

Try Braden Sutphin Aronon Series. It stays open, sets quickly for rapid turn around and out prints all of the aforementioned inks. Great product.

 

[phil lewis]

this isnt really much of an issue anymore now that we switched inks to the hostman inkredible rapida series. i'm still not happy with hostman in general but for the time being we are using it. still slow dry times on uncoated and seem to have to run the powder high most of the time. im still running the ir at 90ish, i guess i can turn it up to cook up the sheet a bit more, only i tend to have fit issues when i backup jobs after running temps that high.

Arnold, I think I can give you an ink that will do the trick. Give me a call @ 647 968 6988.

Phil.

 

[Albert Noel]

Arnold, I think I can give you an ink that will do the trick. Give me a call @ 647 968 6988.

Phil.

you mean albert right?