small perfect binder?

[ZeeBees]

We have a konica 6501 with saddle stitcher. We had planned to swap out the stitcher for an inline perfect binder if the books we made got too big. well, they have gotten too big. we are thinking of swapping in an inline perfect binder, putting in a B/W 1051 with perfect binder and post-inserter, or getting a small table top perfect binder. We need something that can do maybe 2 to 100 50-sheet color books a day. Other than that, we print maybe 80-90,000 black/white a month. Any recommendations/practical knowledge for a nice quality small footprint table-top perfect binder? size of the booklets wouldn't vary much, we have maybe 4 sizes of booklets we produce from 3.5X3.5" to 8.75"X11.5".
Thanks

 

[Craig]

Take a look at off-line, you have more flexibility that way.

 

[jotterpinky]

As Craig mentioned I would think twice before going inline unless you have a single job that's always the same with large quantities. An offline unit will be much more flexible especially since it looks like you might be doing some pretty small books.

For a basic tabletop unit I would look at the Duplo DB-280 or the Standard BQ-160. I've seen demo's of both models and they looked like they would do what you need. Keep in mind that you'll still need to purchase a 3-knife trimmer or else cut these on your standard paper cutter on three sides to get a finished book.

I might also mention that you will not be able to bind coated paper stock with either of these binding machines. For that you need to be looking at something that uses PUR glue.

The Sterling Doublebinder from Spiel Associates is supposed to bind coated paper adequately but I haven't personally seen one in action.

 

[ZeeBees]

Thanks for the information,
Looking off-line. After talking to our Konica tech, he agrees that the internal Perfect binder for the 6501 or 1051 can be laborious and problematic.
We have an external Duplo Hydraulic Cutter, so trimming the interior pages before binding shouldn't be a problem.
good to know about the coated stock. We do use alot of coated stock, so the Spiel or something like it may be more suited for us. the less labor, the better.

 

[ZeeBees]

how to?

how to?

we're getting some samples for an off-line perfect binder. We'll probably settle on the Sterling Digibinder.
when i was running off some samples prints I quickly realized that impositioning a perfect bind was quite different from saddle stitching.

we run 9X12 (basically 8.5X11) pages 2 up on 12X18 paper to maximize cost savings. We have a konica 6501 with creo and inline saddle stitcher, so we have the ability to imposition to step and repeat, step and continue, cut and stack, saddle stitch, & perfect bind.

the only way i could figure to make properly arranged pages to place into a perfect binder was to imposition to saddle stitch but print to flat tray (2 up), then take those pages, put them into the post inserter and run them as saddle stitch. this allows the pages to fall correctly into place for proper pagination of larger paged booklets, but there was no method for me to avoid driving a staple into the middle of the 12X18. once the saddle stitch booklet came out, i would then cut out the middle spine area. Basically left with pages 8.75X12 which were arranged correctly. So, it technically works that way, but the workflow is far from ideal.

so what is the proper workflow to imposition a 40 sheet, 160 page booklet, 2 up on 12X18 to cut and make the pages come out in order?

 

[Keness]

so what is the proper workflow to imposition a 40 sheet, 160 page booklet, 2 up on 12X18 to cut and make the pages come out in order?

You method sounds very complex and error-prone! Others may have some different ideas, but here is what I do.

If your book is 9x12, just set it up that way with all the pages in the correct order, then simply step-and-repeat the entire document into a 12x18 with each page duplicated beside itself. That way when you print out the 12x18, just chop it in half on your cutter and you then have two books. No bizarre impositioning required. So of course if you need 100 books you'll just print 50 copies since each set yields TWO books.

By mentioning a 40-sheet 160-page book, it is clear you have a lot of experience with saddle-stitch! With perfect binding, at least when dealing with cut sheet sizes like this, it would be more "straightforward" to think of it as an 80-sheet 160-page book. (Cut sheet perfect binding increments in 2, after all, not 4 like saddlestitch.)

It is really straightforward, but in case my description was very poor, I made sample PDFs and attached them. The "Before.pdf" is your normal imposed document. Everything normal. The "After.pdf" is after step-and-repeating it in order to get two per sheet to maximize your clicks. After it is printed, just cut the whole stack in half and then you'll have 9x12 book blocks ready to run through your binder. Tip: Use a bright cardstock slipsheet between each set so that you can jog up and cut MANY books sets in half at once without needing to hunt through to find the start and stop of each set when it is time to do your binding.

 

[ZeeBees]

awesome answer. print 2 instead of 1. perfect. thank you so much.

 

[markhunt]

ZeeBees - small perfect binder?

ZeeBees - small perfect binder?

ZeeBees - as others have mentioned, PUR is the most reliable binding adhesive for coated stock, especially if it's been digitally imaged. Standard Finishing Systems will premier a new short-run PUR-ready version of the Horizon BQ-160 at Graph Expo in Chicago, Oct 3-6.

Basic information on the Standard Horizon BQ-160 is at - Standard Duplicating Machines Corporation (information on the PUR version is not released yet).

Please let us know if you'd like to arrange a demonstration or if we can assit further. Thanks.

Mark Hunt | Director of Marketing
Standard Finishing Systems
978 289 5444 direct | 978 886 1784 cell
[email protected] | Print Finishing Solutions | Duplicating Machines - Standard Duplicating Machines Corporation

binders | folders | saddlestitchers | collators | cutters | pre/post | inserters

 

[ZeeBees]

Thanks,
we have samples of the BQ-160 coming in october.

 

[ZeeBees]

funny, we got a couple test samples from a few different machines. using both coated glossy and non-coated paper stock. Absolutely no problems with using coated stock with traditional non-PUR glue. funny that.

 

[Rikkie]

ZeeBees,

I'm currently shopping for a perfect binder (has to be PUR, as my ears are still ringing from a bad experience with coated stock from our Indigo and EVA adhesives). Going on price only, Morgana would get the nod. It's about half the price of the Horizons / Duplos and it does everything the more expensive ones do, only at less than half the speed (up to 200 books / hour, which is plenty enough for me). Definitely not a desktop unit, though.

Your KM tech is an honest guy. The inline perfect binders suck.

 

[buckeyewta]

I am looking for an offline perfect binder at a low cost. Which did you go with? How is it working?

 

[ZeeBees]

we got a sterling digibinder. haven't had any problems with it so far. easy to use, make nice books and notepads. no problems with glossy stocks. i think the largest book so far was over 700 pages. ventilation sucks though. it's in a small room with a crappy exhaust fan, it will get you high, which isn't always a bad thing.

 

[lfelton]

we got a sterling digibinder. haven't had any problems with it so far. easy to use, make nice books and notepads. no problems with glossy stocks. i think the largest book so far was over 700 pages. ventilation sucks though. it's in a small room with a crappy exhaust fan, it will get you high, which isn't always a bad thing.

Don't take offence (just my 2p worth) but you really want to get some extraction with EVA. Closed tank PUR's not so bad, but I'd sort out the ventilation pronto on EVA (especially if used in a smallish area). A hole in the wall, pipework etc costs peanuts next to health problems.

 

[ZeeBees]

i wish i had a response to that, but those brain cells are no longer functional.
we bought a pretty good air system, would recommend someone else buy a great air venting system and have it installed by someone you've worked with before. I think a bathroom ventilation fan would've worked better.

 

[davidspiel]

Why buy a new perfect binder every time you replace your digital engine? Take a look at our Sterling Digibinder. It can handle everything you need plus so much more:

Perfect Binder, Perfect Binding Equipment, Sterling Digibinder

Please call me at 877-BINDERY

David Spiel

 

[[email protected]]

funny, we got a couple test samples from a few different machines. using both coated glossy and non-coated paper stock. Absolutely no problems with using coated stock with traditional non-PUR glue. funny that.

I realize this post is a few years old but was wondering how the Sterling was working for you. I was thinking of purchasing a perfect binding machine for binding digital books off my canon 7000 and the PUR machines are just out of budget. I would be doing a mix of coated and un-coated. I have heard the Sterling is a good choice over the duplo due to the notching AND roughing. Your thoughts after all this time?

 

[ZeeBees]

I realize this post is a few years old but was wondering how the Sterling was working for you. I was thinking of purchasing a perfect binding machine for binding digital books off my canon 7000 and the PUR machines are just out of budget. I would be doing a mix of coated and un-coated. I have heard the Sterling is a good choice over the duplo due to the notching AND roughing. Your thoughts after all this time?

The sterling digibinder has been a great tool. we run catalogs through twice. this ensures no loss of binding or separation with coated gloss or thick stock. we run off a canon 9500. works like a champ.

 

[davidspiel]

As the exclusive distributor of The Sterling Digibinder, naturally I am biased. But if you want more testimonials, see below or give me a call and we'll set up a demo.

"I was skeptical that such an economical machine could
produce such a high quality book but it did and it is
very user friendly."

Joe Mulligan, GMPC, Clifton, NJ

"We use The Sterling Digibinder to perfect bind books
off of our HP Indigo press. We also bind UV coated
stock and oil infused stock from our Konical Minolta."

Joel Morgan, Color Press, Walla Walla,

See the video here: Perfect Binders

Please call me at 877-BINDERY

David Spiel