Soft proofing on monitor, is it possible?

bebris

Member
Hello everyone!

I have encountered a soft proofing problem which i can't explain and hope maybe one of you could help to understand it.
I have some CMYK recipes which are not soft proofing correctly on my monitor.
For example I have C99 M60 Y5 K25 and I would like to see how it will look like when printed using "PSOuncoated_v3_FOGRA52.icc" profile.
I make a soft proof setup in Photoshop (device to simulate: "PSO Uncoated v3 (FOGRA%52)", Rendering Intent: Absolute Colorimetric, Display Options: Simulate Paper Color and Simulate Black Ink), but the color on screen is far away from color what I get on hard proof.
I know that I can check my color on a hard proof by measuring it. And my color (C99 M60 Y5 K25) converted to Lab with Absolute Colorimetric intent would be something like that L:39,49 a:-0,71 b:-25,28. I measure my hard proof and I get dE 1,2. So it is close.
I have an old Measure Tool which allow me to measure emission light/color and measuring my color from a screen I get Lab values L: 50,3 a:0,4 b:-42,7 and dE 20,5! This confirms what I see because the color on the screen is lighter than on the hard proof.
I know that this color can be displayed on my screen more precisely, because color space of a monitor is bigger than "PSOuncoated_v3_FOGRA52.icc" profile. My monitor profile is attached!
Can some soft proofing experts explain where the problem is? Why I can not proof this color correctly on my monitor? What do I do wrong?

regards
bebris
 

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  • DELL P2419HC_160_22_D65_08.10.2020.icm.zip
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Puch

Well-known member
There are several factors which must be considered in your case. First and foremost: in which kind of light, in which environment do you evaluate the said color patch? Softproofing only works properly in a controlled environment, that means you have to put your color proof into a designated proof booth which outputs exactly the specified light. In the case of FOGRA 51 and especially FOGRA 52, you have to have a new kind of lighting booth, which illuminates the target with a mixture of "white" light and a bit of UV, too. This is to stimulate the OBA present in the papers.

Also: I don't really remember MeasureTool but I know it's fairly old, does it support measuring in M1 mode? Does your measuring instrument support M1 mode? Is your proof a certified one, measured by a M1 capable instrument. Was it printed on a certified (FOGRA 52 compatible) proofing paper?

IMHO softproofing the new FOGRA standards (51 and 52) successfully is way more complicated, than were the older ones (39 and 47). I wouldn't expect matching the substrate in a real-world scenario. Try switching off the paper simulation first.
 

bebris

Member
Hi Puch,
Yes you are right! My evaluation environment is not right and probably is the biggest factor why I'm not having a match. I do not have a lighting booth and my rooms lighting is far away from desired...
My i1Pro is from second edition, so it can measure M1. Also my proofing paper is from CGS Oris and is certified for FOGRA52.
MeasureTool is very old software and it does not use M1. It was a CRT monitor era when MeasureTool was introduced and I don't think it knows something about LCD's.
But still I would like to have some proof (by measuring) that my monitor is showing right color. Can you suggest other software which would allow me to measure colors from my monitor?
regards
bebris
 

Puch

Well-known member
If you have an i1 Pro 2 (the black one) it is capable of measuring M1, indeed. I would suggest downloading the latest version of the offical X-Rite software included with the instrument (i1 Profiler). With that, you can calibrate your display, and on top of that, you can validate it after calibration.

When validating, you can choose the patch set of the FOGRA Media Wedge 3 (MW 3) and the target standard (in your case: FOGRA 52), and soon after you will have a detailed report regarding the performance of your monitor.

I'm sure that the validation will show a favourable state, as FOGRA 52's gamut is very small, even a basic sRGB screen can simulate it.

Evaluating the hardcopy proof: if you can't have a real light booth (which I understand, because it's so expensive and it's use is decreasing by the day), I suggest having a better lamp in your office with the Osram 950 "Color Proof" tubes. They're far from perfect, but much more affordable than the dedicated lights from Just Normlicht or GTI.
 

mrserge

New member
Only remember that light tubes are becoming old quickly and you need to measure the light coming from them often. LED panels from Just will give a much more stable result that can be used in the long run.
 

bebris

Member
Hi Puch,
I know I can validate my monitor, and I did it and it was OK!
But I still would like to make a measurements of colors in question from my monitor and make a comparison or assessment by my self.
Do comparison between emitted color and printed color is the same as between two printed? I can calculate dE between two printed. Or is there some different math involved?
What software nowdays allow to make emitted color measurements in CIE Lab?

regards,
bebris
 

Puch

Well-known member
I think the values are comparable, and if they're within a reasonable reach (1-2 delta E) the samples should visually match. Of course, the whole setup is only working if the lighting booth's spectra is as per the specifications, and the luminance of the display is comparable to the illumination of the hardcopy proof. That last part is the hardest to achieve.
 

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