Spitter cutter creaser

[Robohopar]

Hi guys, I’ve briefly gotten into this topic in other threads but I need some real help here. I know a limited a of shops may have a SCC but I recently picked up some post press equipment and another press( Konica 7090 with square bind and 3 knife trim)

The topic here is about the Graphic Whizard 8336SCC. I picked this up and have had problems from day one. I won’t get into that too much unless someone needs to know for their own knowledge but I returning this piece and picking up another SCC. I’m looking at the duplo 618, 646 or the aerocut X pro. I know there is a decent price difference between these machines but I’m willing to pay more to play.

After knowing what a benefit the SCC can provide my production, I wouldn’t mind going a bit deeper in cost to help my post press out.

Does anyone have any experience with either of the three machines I mentioned?

What I know so far is bits and pieces about both duplo machines. The 618 is more in line with the 8336scc but has more program template automation. The 646 has auto screw adjustment and faster speed.

The aerocut I don’t know much about and would like to get some recommendations, pros and cons if possible.

Any info will be helpful. Thank you.

 

[kslight]

I have a 646, it’s pretty awesome, i consider it an essential at our shop…. relatively easy to program with a computer. The thing that sometimes can be frustrating / require the most tweaking is the feeding - some stocks feed better than others…text weight stuff is the most problematic but is still manageable. Just keep in mind that text weight stuff you can’t always just queue it up and walk away from it, due to double detection. Cover weights will run all day long, up until about 16pt, then sometimes you need to tweak it (disable double detection).

The only regret is I wish we had the strike perf module also. We have the rotary trim module.

What do you want to know?

 

[Robohopar]

Awesome to know. My issue with the graphic whizard is that the sheet keeps skewing in the same job. So I’ll setup for a business card, then I’ll see it move off it’s lines on the next couple sheets. Same with presentation folders I cut and crease. Do you have any of those issues?

 

[Robohopar]

Also. Do you do any laminated stocks? We do some gloss and soft touch lamination and I see a lot of shifting during the cut.

 

[kslight]

No my business cards are dead on, as is the print registration. I rarely would see a shift in cut unless double feed detection is accidentally disabled on a thinner stock.

I’ve actually never tried using the duplo with laminated stock. Primarily cards of various sizes, or creasing covers, or perfing and scoring letters.

Perhaps you can find a machine to demo somewhere.

 

[Robohopar]

Is there anything specific you have to do with your printer to keep registration close to the template you setup?

 

[kslight]

Is there anything specific you have to do with your printer to keep registration close to the template you setup?

I have a Ricoh 7210x, there is an automated registration utility that I set per paper and once set then its usually close to perfect. For business cards on certain paper I backtrim the stock because the paper itself is inconsistent, and set my profile to that. I also do the imposition on the fiery and add the duplo reg mark, have it read it when cutting.

 

[TJPrinter]

I have the 618 and haven’t had any issues with skewing of sheets. It’s a very reliable machine. On occasion I would have misfeeds when running 100lb gloss text but that was solved by placing a anti-static fan at the feed table and that wasn’t a big deal since you can get a fan for around $50 on ebay. It’s one of the most reliable machines in my shop. For the most part I just load it and walk away until it needs to be reloaded.

The software is very easy to use too. You can adjust for engine shrinkage or stretch in the software but I rarely use that. I had issues with registration when I had a Canon C810 but I got rid of that and have no issues with the Xerox Versant 280. I don’t use Fiery Impose, I use Quite Imposing so I can’t say how it integrates with Fiery.

I laminate sheets but it’s only a 1.7mil and I don’t have any problems with it. If your Duplo dealer doesn’t have one available for you to demo then you can send samples to Duplo and they will do a test run for you.

You really can’t go wrong with the 618 or 646. If you have a higher volume shop and need the speed then the 646 is the way to go.

Is there anything specific you have to do with your printer to keep registration close to the template you setup?

It will detect the registration mark that is placed in the top right corner of your imposed sheet. Then it will shift the cutting from sheet to sheet based on where it detects the mark.

 

[SoggyWinter]

I have a Duplo 646 too. The machine saves a lot of time and money, but the feeder is awful. I'm going to replace it the second the lease expires. The 618 and 648 are new machine iterations and I have not heard anything about feeding challenges. I guestimate the 646 to go for $70,000USD depending on accessories, the 618 for $40,000, and the 648 to be a little bit more than the 646. Horizon has a Smartslitter that looks excellent and I'm hoping that will be my next SCC, but it is over $100,000USD.

 

[Robohopar]

Wow I’m kind of shocked with the positive feedback. I don’t think I got the graphic whizard to run one decent job. Even with the registration mark.

They had this friction add on piece that helped paper slippage that needed constant adjusting. Weird. One of the techs removed it and said it works better, another tech came in said it absolutely needs it. I don’t know…¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I know it’s gone for now. I have the iq 501 on my Konica so I should have decent registration moving forward since my canon c710 was garbage.

Did you guys consider the aerocut at all?

I’m sorry, from my original post, I meant to say the 648, not 646.

 

[jwheeler]

At my previous job we had a Duplo, and at this company we have an AeroCut Prime so I can share experience with both. In short, I would recommend the Duplo brand and here's the reasons why:

1. On the feeder end, the Duplo has a side guide that is on a track, similar to the paper drawer in a digital press. The Aerocut has magnetic plates that are very difficult to square-off or get in just the right position. We often find after we've started running that the guide is too loose or too tight and have to do little taps to get it correct.
2. The scrap/trash shoot on the Aerocut is too low to the ground. We regularly cut 12x18 and 13x19 sheets, and the long 18" or 19" strips do not have enough clearance to fall to the ground. They end up backing up into the machine and cause major jams. This makes it so the machine must be constantly monitored. The Duplo drops the scraps from inside the machine into a much deeper bin, so I never had this issue.
3. The biggest frustration is the Aerocut has preset gutters. You can not do chop cuts in the slitting direction. This is not the case with the Duplo. This means you will get less up on a page for certain impositions, or find yourself using the guillotine more than you'd prefer.
4. The setup software on the Aerocut is not as user-friendly as the Duplo software (in my opinion). Plus, if you have a Fiery, it now ties in directly with your Duplo. The imposition template you make on your Fiery can be loaded onto the Duplo. Adversely, the Aerocut software actually acts as imposition software and creates your imposed PDF along with the cut file for the machine.
5. The Duplo has a setup mode that will output the first set of business cards only half way so you can adjust the catch trays to the proper positions. The AeroCut doesn't do this, or at least the tech couldn't show us how.

Both machines are very solid as far as durability. Jams can be cleared by the user on either one. Slitters and the cutter blade last for years before needing to be replaced/sharpened...but that will depend on your volume. Both have an 'air-knife' and vacuum feeding.

 

[Robohopar]

Thank you for the detailed review of both machines. I’m leaning towards the duplo as well.

Is there any other option out there to consider?

 

[jwheeler]

Thank you for the detailed review of both machines. I’m leaning towards the duplo as well.

Is there any other option out there to consider?

There's always more machines out there by other brands, but I don't have experience with them. I know Morgana has the AutoCut Pro and Horizon has the SMSL-100. Both of those are manufacturers that make great machines. We have a Morgana folder and it's a solid machine.

 

[jwheeler]

…text weight stuff is the most problematic but is still manageable. Just keep in mind that text weight stuff you can’t always just queue it up and walk away from it, due to double detection.

This is common to all slitter/cutter/creasers. They don't do well with thinner stocks. We won't mess with anything less than 100# gloss text.

 

[kslight]

I will also clarify that my opinion of the 646 has evolved over time. With our old Konica printer, everything came out super staticky and was a nightmare to feed with the duplo. I also discovered through frustrated contact with Duplo (they wanted to sell us an additional duplo machine) that though we had the side air option, it was still disabled in maintenance mode…once this was enabled feeding was improved as well. I wasn’t at this employer for the duplo’s installation so had no idea. The prints off our new printer are not staticky so the duplo is much easier to use now. We ended up buying out the lease on ours, and then we also bought a duplo booklet maker. I feel pretty confident about their machines…pricey but a solid brand.

 

[Shawnd]

I have had the PT335scc for over 5 years now, it does have it's quirks. We have to run it in slow mode for tight bleeds but if we build in extra bleeds we can run it in airplane on most jobs. We also do 95% postcards on ours.

I was looking at upgrading to the 8336 to be able to run 70# text through it for microperfing but Chris over at GW is pushing me away from running text through the SCC. We run 70# text through our 335 currently on slow speeds for custom microperfs, but it is sketchy.

 

[Robohopar]

This thing barely runs 100lb gloss text. Lots of problems. Not so much with the feeding but more the inconsistency of the cuts. GW said the lightest gsm is 150…so doubt it’ll be a good choice for you.

I have had the PT335scc for over 5 years now, it does have it's quirks. We have to run it in slow mode for tight bleeds but if we build in extra bleeds we can run it in airplane on most jobs. We also do 95% postcards on ours.

I was looking at upgrading to the 8336 to be able to run 70# text through it for microperfing but Chris over at GW is pushing me away from running text through the SCC. We run 70# text through our 335 currently on slow speeds for custom microperfs, but it is sketchy.

 

[jdodoubleg]

I have had a 618 for a little over 2 years now. It has never required repair. It does require maintenance every now and then. It is most noticeable when the last row of business cards start coming out skewed, then I know I need to clean toner off of the rollers.

I haven't had very good luck with using the link between the duplo and the fiery, the connection keeps dropping, maybe it is our network, so I don't use it.

I have no problem cutting up to 14mil plastics on mine, as the others say the really thin stuff is problematic. The feeding tray works great, very little issue with it.

The Duplo is very easy to learn and use.

Here are my current stats, we bought the machine new.
Sheets: 179142
Cuts: 1083999
Creases: 31164
Hours: 223

 

[Robohopar]

I have had a 618 for a little over 2 years now. It has never required repair. It does require maintenance every now and then. It is most noticeable when the last row of business cards start coming out skewed, then I know I need to clean toner off of the rollers.

I haven't had very good luck with using the link between the duplo and the fiery, the connection keeps dropping, maybe it is our network, so I don't use it.

I have no problem cutting up to 14mil plastics on mine, as the others say the really thin stuff is problematic. The feeding tray works great, very little issue with it.

The Duplo is very easy to learn and use.

Here are my current stats, we bought the machine new.
Sheets: 179142
Cuts: 1083999
Creases: 31164
Hours: 223

Thanks for the input. I had skewing from day 1, so my probably wasn't dirty rollers, I just think theres a lot of friction adjustments on the rollers. I'm curious though, The cut blade is over a million, does it need replacing?

 

[jdodoubleg]

Thanks for the input. I had skewing from day 1, so my probably wasn't dirty rollers, I just think theres a lot of friction adjustments on the rollers. I'm curious though, The cut blade is over a million, does it need replacing?

So far the blade is doing fine. I think I saw somewhere that it has something like a 3 million cut estimate. I also wonder if the blade can be sharpened rather than replaced.