Spot UV Coating

[Muddy]

Hi everyone.

I really value everyone's opinions and whenever I've asked I've always received thoughtful answers so I would like opinions on a spot UV coater.

We all know it's very difficult to find something unique in our industry nowadays. Everyone runs essentially the same equipment and achieves the same results (open for debate I know but in the context of our conversation lets say it is a given). One thing that does not exist in my market is a spot UV coater. In fact, the only type of coater that exists is an entry level flood coater that the company has not marketed at all. They have kept it very quiet. I see a spot coater as an area where we could provide a very unique service/effect to the local print buying community. I have a few thoughts and questions. I'd like everyone's opinions.

1) I believe this is not an "if you build it they will come" venture. A well designed tool showing effects and ideas for coatings will be essential and having to sell the crap out of it as an add-on and/or creative outlet will be essential. I could use it as a great marketing piece as well.

2) When I talked to the dealer he seemed really reluctant to sell me a spot unit. I get the impression he feels that because no one else is doing it, it makes it undoable. He's given me a $70,000 price tag (CDN) and doesn't see the ROI.

3) The cost is about a half a cent to coat one side of the sheet so margin will be excellent.

4) This is a snag I see. You need flexo plates to spot coat and I would have to buy them from a flexo plate processor. I'm getting figures around $200 per plate. Is this something worth looking at internalizing? (I currently run AGFA CTP) Or is it not really feasible to do this and I'll be forced to buy them outside.

I have to say I really am leaning very strongly toward purchasing this but I need someone to bounce this off. For the sake of a $1300 payment per month, I think I could sell this to my customers especially where it is a point of uniqueness in my area it really gives me a step up on others.

I should say that I would be all for purchasing a used machine if anyone has thoughts on this as well.

All input here is much appreciated

 

[grobeson]

MGI's JETvarnish

MGI's JETvarnish

Hi Muddy -

Let me preface my reply by stating that I work for MGI USA - if you're not familiar with us, we manufacture digital printing and finishing solutions.

May I suggest you take a look at our JETvarnish digital inkjet spot UV coater? It's 100% digital - meaning no plates or screens - you add a layer for your spot coating areas through Photoshop, process through the JETvarnish's front end system, and then your prints are produced. The max sheet size is 20 x 29" and it can spot UV coat at speeds up to 0.5 m/second.

More information can be found at the following link: MGI impression numérique

Additionally, here's an article on a JETvarnish installed at one of the largest commercial printers in France: http://mgi.celeonet.fr/PDF/docus/JETvarnish Chirat English.pdf.

If you'd like more information, please send me a direct message and I'll put you in touch with an MGI rep for your area.

Thanks!

 

[Muddy]

Thanks for the info and the links. Looks like a great machine but likely outside of my budget (Isn't that always the way?!?!?)

I did download and print out (gasp!) your brochure and it's now in my research folder. You never know.

Thanks again for the info

 

[jberlin]

Muddy,

If you contact me i can send you some information on off line spot coating equipment,
plate information as well as what kind of effects you can expect to achieve. You can
determine if you think you can sell it but i'm sure we can help.
[email protected]
201-674-1084

 

[Joseph Kong]

How about using screen printing, either manuel machine or automatic

 

[Joseph Kong]

How about using screen printing, either manuel machine or automatic, if you are running big volume, UV flexo is the most cost effective

 

[Phantom]

Joseph, have you experimented with using screen equipment for spot UV? If so how did you register the Sheet to the screen and what type of screen & fluid worked best. When we last tried this, the screened image UV was applied too thick taking away from the sharpness of the image. (tested with kelstar Coating) any suggestions?

 

[Joseph Kong]

This is a very common process in Asia, you may have to redefine the mesh spec., I can get you the brand name and the product. In some case customer also use matte lamination to enhance the look and make life easy for production. I am not sure, is lamination is bend in your area. Do you have a screen printing machine?

I am not involve in screen printing, but flexo only, my contact could help

 

[alan4color]

be carful with UV using a "plate" rather than screen you can not apply as thick a coat as with a screen and your limited to types of UV available - also the $ seem high i have seen late model used UV equipment with auto feed size up to 20x28 flood or spot in the area of 25m (US $)

 

[gcguv]

Hay Muddy,

We don't use the screen printers anymore, now we use a 6 color 23 x 29 press and I don't recomend you purchashing one of those. for the price alone. Ouch! I say this becasue 3 years ago my brother and I purchased the press for many reasons but one was the spot coating. We do apply the coating a couple of differnet ways, one is strike through and the other is what we call raised/textured. The strike through, we do with a standard printing plate and the textured is use with a Flexo plate with a steel backer. SO I guess you can say the Flexo has join LItho. a little bit anyway. But I guess I'm telling you this becasue we did use the "You Build they come" and for the most part they did and it came in quite fast. And then the Economy took it's nasty swing. Even know we are stuggling right now we still feel like it was the best thing we ever did. So if you do choose to buy it, I want to wish the best of luck and trust me the customers will come if the price is right. Speaking of price, there is one thing that you can't do and that is to exspect huge returns. right now be happy with market share.

Good luck

 

[Bondmaster]

Best I rate in the market for off-line spoy UV is the KOMPAC. Uses flexo plates ( unfortunately approx $200 a pop). Line can also do scratchy coatings, flood coat and IR aqueous coatings. Handles the thinnest of stocks as well as laser toner work.Very versatile at $50 - $70,000??

 

[Bondmaster]

What is the target price for a UV spot finisher anyway. We produce laminators but had a UV development on the go before the $ crunch. Idea was to produce a offset/laser toner spot coater at 12 x 17" - approx 3000 per hour to double against screen output. Got close to developing a "plate" cost of $15 plus 5 min change over (set up)

Diverted funds to a grand format flood coater of 62" wide for flat bed inkjet signage. This project near final trials at a retail of $30,000 up against European $60,000 models

So give us an excuse to re kindle the mini spot machine?

 

[lfelton]

What is the target price for a UV spot finisher anyway. We produce laminators but had a UV development on the go before the $ crunch. Idea was to produce a offset/laser toner spot coater at 12 x 17" - approx 3000 per hour to double against screen output. Got close to developing a "plate" cost of $15 plus 5 min change over (set up)

Diverted funds to a grand format flood coater of 62" wide for flat bed inkjet signage. This project near final trials at a retail of $30,000 up against European $60,000 models

So give us an excuse to re kindle the mini spot machine?

I can see a market for it, but I think the plate cost might still be an issue for short run digital work (though it's obviously less than the screen charge we pay for spot uv through a trade finisher). You may be able to persuade a percentage of (end) customers to pay for it, but for "mass" acceptance, I'm not sure. Can't you work out a way of using litho plates An aluminium 0.15 plate of that size (i.e. GTO) is going to cost a couple of bucks. I guess that makes the machine more expensive and complex, you'd probably need a basic dampening system. It would be a killer product in the short run book publishing market and I can see that short run brochure work, sell sheets, flyers etc. would also be applicable. It'll be pretty niche though, so you need to figure out what the capital cost the market could stand.

BTW - ouch on the plate cost on the Kompac, that's more than the entire subbed out cost for a short run spot UV to a trade finisher, INCLUDING the screen charge.

 

[Kompac123]

Spot Coating Plates

Spot Coating Plates

I noticed a discussion in regards the cost of flexi plates for spot coating. I wanted to first off clarify that a flexi plate is not the only answer to spot coating on the Kompac Kwik Finish. Flexi plates are only used for intricate spot coating jobs and can be reused many times. If you divide the cost of the flexi plate by the number of sheets in this specialty job, the cost is really quite low. If you are doing jobs with less intricate spot coating or spot not coating, for variable data printing, a strippable blanket can be used. You can cut out rectangles and squares, or other more simple shapes and use a more affordable strippable blanket.

At Kompac we do have a one-stop-shop allowing you to purchase these strippable blankets, along with coating, cleaners, replacement bulbs, etc.

I hope that this has cleared up some misunderstandings in regards to only being able to use flexi plates. If anyone has any other questions about the spot coating process or the Kompac Kwik Finish UV & Aqueous Coating System, please feel free to contact me directly by phone (908-534-8411 ext. 1112) or email ([email protected]).

 

[Bondmaster]

h.credo ---- Understand what you mean by using strippable blankets. But these are usually only used in a mechanical sence, not embellishment. IE: leaving blank areas for subsequent overprinting etc. This thread, and I stand to be corrected, is about spotting as an embellishment and therefore would need a plate as such (whether a screen, fleo plate or offset plate) and therefore $200 for a screen or a flexo plate is a stopper in the digital short run arena.
Ifelton --- I mentioned $15 for plate cost as tongue in cheek. Do you actually see that as a stumbling block on embellishment even on tiny job quantities? We can't include "copy shop" output of 50 or 100 sheet $ mentality in this. You mention you could get a whole job including a screen done for the Kompac $200? What sort of screen cost gets below $100 - $200 these days? Wow -- where? Can any screen guys out there let me know, please. Even set up time on a manual screen printer would be that again?
The only machines to eliminate "plates" altogether ar in the $60- $120,000 bracket and the (as in the case of one type) have 15 x $2000 injet heads on board ($30,000 !!)that if not constantly maintained are replaced every other month. I've studied these and see the future maybe, but not in the short run market

 

[lfelton]

h.credo ---- Understand what you mean by using strippable blankets. But these are usually only used in a mechanical sence, not embellishment. IE: leaving blank areas for subsequent overprinting etc. This thread, and I stand to be corrected, is about spotting as an embellishment and therefore would need a plate as such (whether a screen, fleo plate or offset plate) and therefore $200 for a screen or a flexo plate is a stopper in the digital short run arena.
Ifelton --- I mentioned $15 for plate cost as tongue in cheek. Do you actually see that as a stumbling block on embellishment even on tiny job quantities? We can't include "copy shop" output of 50 or 100 sheet $ mentality in this. You mention you could get a whole job including a screen done for the Kompac $200? What sort of screen cost gets below $100 - $200 these days? Wow -- where? Can any screen guys out there let me know, please. Even set up time on a manual screen printer would be that again?
The only machines to eliminate "plates" altogether ar in the $60- $120,000 bracket and the (as in the case of one type) have 15 x $2000 injet heads on board ($30,000 !!)that if not constantly maintained are replaced every other month. I've studied these and see the future maybe, but not in the short run market

Screen charge, including M/R from our local finisher is GBP60, so I guess that's about US$100. We've used them for quite a few book covers with intricate gloss UV over matt lam. That's the going rate within a couple of quid in this region.

To answer your other question, yes I do see $15 as a stumbling block *especially* for tiny quantities. A lot of our book run lengths are quantity 1-20 and we regularly get asked for spot UV, there's no doubt it would be popular if priced right.

Not really sure what you mean by "copy shop" mentality? We print a lot of short run books and run lengths are getting tiny. It's not unusual for us to print 50 (or even less) of a title one week for a small publisher, 50 the next, 50 the next and so on. Another common occurance is we print a few thousand when a book is promoted, then much, much smaller quantities in subsequent months - down to tens. Nobody wants to hold stock & nobody wants big upfront charges. I'm not even mentioning POD you'll notice.

The market's changing and success depends on giving people what they want. I'm happy to chat, but don't shoot the messenger.

 

[Bondmaster]

No, not trying to shoot the messenger.( My old man's Royal Navy way of communication comes out too often - - please forgive that). Really appreciate the chance to glean your thoughts.
Just trying to get a handle on miniturising finishing gear. I have a freind who publishhes books to the Universities and gets charged $ 40 per copy from the printer and finished (embellished) for $2 per copy. These days shops will spend mega bucks on the printing device -- fair enough as that's the core. But then bulk at $5000 for a laminator that can generate $400 gross profit per hour and pay itself off literally in the first 3 months. Appreciate your thoughts. Must admit I come from the "older" school who ran $300,000 Steinemanns and Sakaria screen contract machines and yes, runs required to get into the groove these days, are what we gave away free to secure business. Still, being pedandic about it, doesn't the DOP pricing cover logistics of set up $ and embellishment etc as a "lump" cost. What I'm trying to say is that I regularly get printers looking at lamination and spotting as expensive when looking at piece pricing rather than the overall . IE: bod with an IGEN or Presstek (whatever) doesn't charge $1 to $2 per copy in total for runs of 20 like what I'm descibing as "copy shop". Total generated sale of $20 to $40 for the 20 sheets wouldn't be that exiting. So $15 set up plate plus $1 to spot = $35 for you book run would not find favour?Horses for courses, as you say. Next week we are laminating a 12 x 17" sheet -- 150 of -- incorporating red glitter into the surface. Large cereal manufacturer has accepted $5 per sheet on material costs of $0.22 per sheet. Rip off ? Hell no -- just perception -- that's laminating for you.

 

[lfelton]

I guess there's multiple opportunities and the type of machine you describe will certainly work with some. For example, a publisher just placed an order with us for 1,500 softback books, full colour throughout, matt laminated covers. Order placed late Tuesday, complete order will leave us Thursday and some of them will no doubt be in peoples hands by the weekend. I'd call that JIT (just in time), rather than POD. There's no way that we could spot UV the job in time using a subcontractor, so there's an opportunity to bring that in house.

The opportunity where I don't think your cost model works for is POD where you literally print one book. We don't have a really good product offering in this market place (yet), but I'd imagine that an equipment manufacturer who could figure out how to put a protective coating and embellishment on the cover of ONE book would have printers lining up to buy them.

Just a thought.

 

[GRAPHIC COATINGS]

As a trade finisher, we run Sakurai's 29" and 41" and we run them all the time.
Most of our work comes from printers that have in-line UV capabilities.
Customers still want that " Raised UV " look over the print, that presses today
can not achieve yet.
Cost of making screens is not as much as making flexo plates, and we have more of
advantage as what can we lay down, and how much Coating we use.

www.GRAPHICCOATINGS.com