Swapping out year old KM7090 for Ricoh 7500

[SirSpeedyCVA]

I put a 7500 in to replace my 9100. Love it. Can’t imagine ever using a 5th color

 

[jdalsvig]

Overall, it sounds like you have a major issue with your SD-513. Either a bad board or connector. I've never encountered the slitters or face trim adjusting on their own, or only some pages in a booklet being skewed (all or nothing). I do get dust on the books from the face trim, but only on the first 2-3 books and it wipes right off - residual from the last job. After that it's a clean run. The only issue I've encountered with the slitters is jamming, and that was due to running a thin stock that just didn't run through them well, or because someone loaded paper larger than what the set size was (the slitters will adjust to be just outside the width of the paper when running flat sheets).

Our controller also loses connection, but maybe once every week or two. It can happen randomly, or if I cancel a job at the right stage in processing (like right after clicking print but before anything actually prints). This doesn't occur every time, but when it does I have to shut everything off and wait 15+minutes for the Fiery to reboot and reconnect.

Color consistency across the sheet has been a developer issue almost every time I've encountered it. Either the powder needs replaced or the pickup roller in the unit is wearing out.

Our primary print quality issue we run into is darker streaks running the same direction as the feed; which 99% of the time is due to dirty corona wires.

The shop I work for is currently considering upgrading from a SD-506 to an SD-513. We run a C7100 and C4070, These machines have in-line bindery capabilities (FD-503, SD-506) as well as IQ-501, PF-712/PF-707.

I've read good and bad reviews of the SD-513, just wondering if you have had any positive or negative developments since your original response to this post?
The problems that other people have had with the SD-513 is jamming/skewing. Were there any issues with specific types of paper/weights? You mentioned that thin stocks were an issue, what about coated/uncoated?

Thanks.

 

[jwheeler]

positive or negative developments since your original response to this post?

I had posted this before: The SD-513 squareback bookletmaker has been a big disappointment as well. The top and bottom trimming are very inconsistent from sheet to sheet, so we end up having to trim them manually. When we use the face trimmer, it leaves all sorts of marks/toner dust on the back cover. We also have random issues such as skewed pages within a book, or it will suddenly trim several inches off the face instead of just 0.5" trim.

The only thing they were able to fix was when it would suddenly trim off several inches off the face instead of the 0.5" trim we specified. I think it was a glitch in the firmware.

The issue we still have is the top and bottom trimmer on the SD-513 which uses slitter wheels to do each individual sheet as they come into the bookletmaker instead of doing a guillotine cut after the book is made. With thinner stock like 80# gloss text, this causes inconsistencies in the trimmings, and the books are never very clean looking on the top and bottom. So we're basically using like an SD-506 to only do the face trim and then we manually trim the top/bottom on our guillotine.

The squareback feature is nice, but you still see the initial half fold, leaving you with an unsightly spine on certain stocks, even when using the crease feature.

The 513 is also quite limited in it's sheet capacity. Don't get sold on them telling you it can handle up to 50 signatures. That's only if it's thinner than 20# bond. It's max 35 signatures with 20# and starts dropping quite a bit from there, especially when you use a heavier cover. We are constantly lying to the machine to get the amount of sheets we need. I've posted the limitations below from the specification guide. If you're using coated stock, the page limitation drops in half. If you really need a more robust bookletmaker, consider getting one of the Plockmatics. They offer these in-line or off-line. Due to the costly investment of these units, it's better to get it offline so you can keep it even after you replace your digital presses. They have automatic feed drawers so you can set it up and walk away. This also allows your press to run at full speed.

 

[kslight]

I had posted this before: The SD-513 squareback bookletmaker has been a big disappointment as well. The top and bottom trimming are very inconsistent from sheet to sheet, so we end up having to trim them manually. When we use the face trimmer, it leaves all sorts of marks/toner dust on the back cover. We also have random issues such as skewed pages within a book, or it will suddenly trim several inches off the face instead of just 0.5" trim.

The only thing they were able to fix was when it would suddenly trim off several inches off the face instead of the 0.5" trim we specified. I think it was a glitch in the firmware.

The issue we still have is the top and bottom trimmer on the SD-513 which uses slitter wheels to do each individual sheet as they come into the bookletmaker instead of doing a guillotine cut after the book is made. With thinner stock like 80# gloss text, this causes inconsistencies in the trimmings, and the books are never very clean looking on the top and bottom. So we're basically using like an SD-506 to only do the face trim and then we manually trim the top/bottom on our guillotine.

The squareback feature is nice, but you still see the initial half fold, leaving you with an unsightly spine on certain stocks, even when using the crease feature.

The 513 is also quite limited in it's sheet capacity. Don't get sold on them telling you it can handle up to 50 signatures. That's only if it's thinner than 20# bond. It's max 35 signatures with 20# and starts dropping quite a bit from there, especially when you use a heavier cover. We are constantly lying to the machine to get the amount of sheets we need. I've posted the limitations below from the specification guide. If you're using coated stock, the page limitation drops in half. If you really need a more robust bookletmaker, consider getting one of the Plockmatics. They offer these in-line or off-line. Due to the costly investment of these units, it's better to get it offline so you can keep it even after you replace your digital presses. They have automatic feed drawers so you can set it up and walk away. This also allows your press to run at full speed.

View attachment 293888

I agree with all this about the sd513, except we went with the duplo dbm 150 which is more flexible book size options than the plock, and in my experience a more durable brand, and i believe less expensive. We went with hand feeding instead of the feeders…honestly this is completely fine for our run lengths (normally 1000 or less, mostly 50-200).

 

[jwheeler]

I agree with all this about the sd513, except we went with the duplo dbm 150 which is more flexible book size options than the plock, and in my experience a more durable brand, and i believe less expensive. We went with hand feeding instead of the feeders…honestly this is completely fine for our run lengths (normally 1000 or less, mostly 50-200).

Thats great feedback, thanks!

 

[LeGerbs]

We have a C7090 that has been a nightmare as well, but the C6085 has been awesome. Since the C7090 is their newest line, switching to Ricoh is definitely becoming a strong possibility for us. We have two color KM engines and three b/w KM engines, so it would be a big adjustment.

I asked in another forum, but didn't get much feedback...do any of you use b/w units from Ricoh? Can you provide feedback on those? Especially looking for the following feedback:

• if you switched from KM, are the Ricoh's better/worse/same?
• if use their in-line perfect binder?
• if you print a decent amount of manuals/binders with divider tabs?
• how well do they handle cardstock such as 100# cover
• how well do they handle NCR

We essentially "swapped" over from 2 Konica c6100 to 2 Ricoh Pro c9210's.

1. In our experience in almost every single way the Ricoh is better than our Konica better color, speed, parts life, and service.
2. We don't use any in-line bindery after our terrible experience with the Plockmatic for the c6100
3. The Ricoh's LOVE anything heavy weight. The stock we use the most is 100# Gloss Cover and it just runs and runs and runs. Most of our job runs are relatively large so we fill 2 trays of paper and set it to the stacker unit. They run for 45 minutes for 2000 sheets of duplexed 13x19 Cover with 0 issues. It's the best set it and forget it machine we have in our shop hands down. We have checked the run after about 6000 sheets in and there is almost no color shift whatsoever.
4. The stacker units in these machines are absolute beasts. It comes out damn near perfect which really helps when we get it ready for the guillotines.
5. Ricoh support has a significantly different approach to replacing parts on the machine than KM did. It's a cake walk to replace units such as the Fuser, Drums, Charge Units, ITB Lubricant bars, ITB cleaning units, and PTU's. They focus more on training the operator how to fix basics on the machine so you have higher uptime. PM cycles are 1.2m vs 450k.
6. We don't run NCR on these machines because it tends to be bad for even KM rubber rollers. Currently we just use our old KM 1070 to run NCR. I can say the Ricoh runs 20# bond like a dream as well.
7. A big difference for us was the automatic fusing belt buffer. Essentially when you have a long run of shorter stock IE 11x17 then try to run 13x19 you'll see fuser marks on the KM machines. On the ricoh you can run a setting that "buffs" those lines out of the belt.

Some things to keep in mind.

1. The registration process on the Ricoh machines is a pain in the ass. The machine runs 32 sheets of paper to get the registration set which isn't always 100% perfect vs the IQ in our c6100's. However it does maintain that registration nearly forever vs every time you change out paper in the tray on the Konica.
2. For short jobs it's a slower start for sure. It takes a decent while to warm up even when just printing one sheet. These are built for very long runs and use that initial warm up period so they don't have to adjust themselves during the print run.
3. They "will" feed envelopes. If you like to sit and screw with the machines for 45 minutes then open every flap on the envelopes you're going to run through it.
4. The tray layout is a back breaker. Bending over with heavy stock for 10 hours a day is rough.

Overall we love these machines we have our busiest season during elections and if we were to have relied soley on the KM's we'd be out of business.

*Edit* I realize now how old this post actually was haha

 

[SoggyWinter]

We essentially "swapped" over from 2 Konica c6100 to 2 Ricoh Pro c9210's.

1. In our experience in almost every single way the Ricoh is better than our Konica better color, speed, parts life, and service.
2. We don't use any in-line bindery after our terrible experience with the Plockmatic for the c6100
3. The Ricoh's LOVE anything heavy weight. The stock we use the most is 100# Gloss Cover and it just runs and runs and runs. Most of our job runs are relatively large so we fill 2 trays of paper and set it to the stacker unit. They run for 45 minutes for 2000 sheets of duplexed 13x19 Cover with 0 issues. It's the best set it and forget it machine we have in our shop hands down. We have checked the run after about 6000 sheets in and there is almost no color shift whatsoever.
4. The stacker units in these machines are absolute beasts. It comes out damn near perfect which really helps when we get it ready for the guillotines.
5. Ricoh support has a significantly different approach to replacing parts on the machine than KM did. It's a cake walk to replace units such as the Fuser, Drums, Charge Units, ITB Lubricant bars, ITB cleaning units, and PTU's. They focus more on training the operator how to fix basics on the machine so you have higher uptime. PM cycles are 1.2m vs 450k.
6. We don't run NCR on these machines because it tends to be bad for even KM rubber rollers. Currently we just use our old KM 1070 to run NCR. I can say the Ricoh runs 20# bond like a dream as well.
7. A big difference for us was the automatic fusing belt buffer. Essentially when you have a long run of shorter stock IE 11x17 then try to run 13x19 you'll see fuser marks on the KM machines. On the ricoh you can run a setting that "buffs" those lines out of the belt.

Some things to keep in mind.

1. The registration process on the Ricoh machines is a pain in the ass. The machine runs 32 sheets of paper to get the registration set which isn't always 100% perfect vs the IQ in our c6100's. However it does maintain that registration nearly forever vs every time you change out paper in the tray on the Konica.
2. For short jobs it's a slower start for sure. It takes a decent while to warm up even when just printing one sheet. These are built for very long runs and use that initial warm up period so they don't have to adjust themselves during the print run.
3. They "will" feed envelopes. If you like to sit and screw with the machines for 45 minutes then open every flap on the envelopes you're going to run through it.
4. The tray layout is a back breaker. Bending over with heavy stock for 10 hours a day is rough.

Overall we love these machines we have our busiest season during elections and if we were to have relied soley on the KM's we'd be out of business.

*Edit* I realize now how old this post actually was haha

Good info, thanks!!