the future of offset??

[kristianeyman]

hello all! i wanted to get some perspective on the topic of offset vs digital printing moving into 2011. i have read that at graphic expo this was the first year that ALL digital printers were up front and the offset guys were in the back!? so my question is where do you think offset fits in with digital, or where right now does or should digital compete with traditional offset? i know that for printing jobs of 10K+ or 1000's of magazines with 100+ pages a 8 up press can and probably should be the choice. what is you idea of how or where digital should be moving into the traditional realm, and in how can it become more efficent in the near future.

 

[Craig]

My opinion is that the two will compliment each other for quite some time. I don't see an "all digital" world, unless it would be inkjet taking over offset, not likely.... at least not that I see. Instead of looking at it a competing, look at it as complimenting. You build the strengths of one from the weaknesses of the other.

 

[rath307]

Well as I see it Offset will be around for quite awhile yet. The speeds of the
new Offset presses the need for spot colors the paper size and weight that
can run Offset will keep it out in front of Digital. Digital printing is still best bet
for short run and variable data jobs. Each Printing process has it place Flexo,
Gravure, Letterpress, Offset and Digital

 

[kristianeyman]

My opinion is that the two will compliment each other for quite some time. I don't see an "all digital" world, unless it would be inkjet taking over offset, not likely.... at least not that I see. Instead of looking at it a competing, look at it as complimenting. You build the strengths of one from the weaknesses of the other.

very well said craig! i think my question is should offset be passing the torch on certain jobs and looking for others? i.e. flyers, business cards and such? with the pricing of used newer digital presses becoming very affordable vs used offset presses, should digital printer be looking to pick up the slack (and what) of offset printers?

 

[nhprinter]

very well said craig! i think my question is should offset be passing the torch on certain jobs and looking for others? i.e. flyers, business cards and such? with the pricing of used newer digital presses becoming very affordable vs used offset presses, should digital printer be looking to pick up the slack (and what) of offset printers?

IMHO... that's already been determined in the industry. There isn't enough work out there to "pass the torch" on anything.

Most offset printing companies that I know of also have digital capabilities so they're able to keep those jobs in-house and determine the right fit for the job. (digital/offset) Those that don't, will in the near future. The all digital shops will just have to continue to go after the shortrun work just as they always have.

Dave

 

[benny123]

from a technology point of view inkjet is the future imo. toner based digital will be around for a little longer but inkjet is where the future is.

 

[ondemandbindery]

from a technology point of view inkjet is the future imo. toner based digital will be around for a little longer but inkjet is where the future is.

I would have to agree. Even the digital box sales people agree. I get to see a lot of different work in my business. I still say Letterpress printing is the most embracing of Printing. Nothing touches offset for quality and everything else follows suit. The way I see it the problem is not that any of these processes will ever get the torch passed from offset. It is just the volume of the printing that has been steadiliy killing offset. If we lived in a world where the internet did not exist as it does today and digital and injet capability was at the technology point it is today then Printing of any form would be a growing industry. A different time and there is no stopping it now. Imagine in 10 years what an Igen will be worth when Inkjet is running over top of it?

 

[UberTech]

You will probably always have the mom and pop copy centre that will depend on toner technologies but the future is almost certainly inkjet like fujifilms Jet press. Just the complete strip down of moving components makes inkjet the for gone conclusion.

The only thing holding the tech back at the moment is the cost of getting in and maybe ink cost but these will all come down. I give (production) toner based printing 6-9 years.

 

[gordo]

The only thing holding the tech back at the moment is the cost of getting in and maybe ink cost but these will all come down.

The cost of getting in will probably go down. But the cost of ink? I very much doubt that.

best, gordon p

 

[UberTech]

The cost of getting in will probably go down. But the cost of ink? I very much doubt that.

best, gordon p

Well I guess I'm thinking of people who are going to make clone inks. It would take a bit of investment and not much return to clone toner, inks (inkjet) don't seem to be as difficult judging by all the pseudo inks you can get for inkjets at the moment.

 

[gordo]

Well I guess I'm thinking of people who are going to make clone inks. It would take a bit of investment and not much return to clone toner, inks (inkjet) don't seem to be as difficult judging by all the pseudo inks you can get for inkjets at the moment.

Technically you're right. But putting 3rd party ink in a $69 desktop inkjet and voiding the warranty is quite different than doing that with a $200k digital press. It's not that 3rd party ink won't work - it's that the press manufacturer will simply say that if you have any problems or require any servicing then, because you're not using their ink, any problems you have are yours not theirs. There's too much profit in the ink. They're not going to lose that to 3rd party ink suppliers.

best, gordon p

 

[OkiTech]

Besides all said, to all Ink-jet liking guys, Ink-jets had been around for a while, is there one that can print gold color, Silver may-be? The only way to make INK-JET fast is stationary head or array of such, nozzle clogging will exist, how much would that cost?
I think every technology will have it's share and limit, not necessary excluding each other.
Plus people, please don't forget people - those so called Mom & Pop shops they will exist and last, generations should change - 6-9 years isn't really time for complete industry change. Take HP Indigo, they still working bugs out - like low scratch resistance, and they been around for how long? I don't see how everyone will scrap their Offset and Digital equipment and run to buy Ink-jet. I own Business Equipment Service Company, we had opened a Copy Center and farely quickly went offset, nothing heavy but we did. As far as average opinion - ink-jet is a joke, laser machine is Gooood, Offset is Big and Coool.
It will definatelly take time for this to wear out and customers stopping checking-out calendar if it is April 1 today hearing - "I have printed your 5000 of 4x6 on Ink-Jet"
Just a thought...

 

[kristianeyman]

very interesting views from all angles. where i am in mexico, there are a couple of hard hitting offset shops that crank out jobs all day long. now most of these guys are gang running business cards and flyers and offering them at $9 for 1000 with uv!? so obviously why would a digital printer want to get into the business of hairline margins and elephant size stress. where is the threshold for many that own digital and traditional presses to switch over the work? i know that it depends on cutomer demands and turnaround, but what or where do you see digital moving or has started doing a good job at that previously offset was conquering? as to digital printing being dead in the next 8-9 years, well most of the digital printers here in mexico are still using DC12's!! now i know that the business models are diffrent, but if a digital business has 3 DC12's and cranks out 1500 tabloids a day for .50 each on just walkup business; the way i see it is there is still room for growth and development. so taken the pre-mentioned scenario, apply that to your substrate (maybe 10-15 years ago) and where are you now? i think this goes to say that yes new technologies are going to be introduced into the market, but is it really worth the extra 150K, or can you squeeze a little bit more juice out of that orange?

 

[GJOHN]

I have to agree 100% with Dave-nhprinter. Those shops without a digital press is farming out their work and when their volume goes up, they will lease a digital machine and do it inhouse. The commercial sheetfed work is 20-30% down in the USA and it is not coming back. I also see that the high speed inkjet will be the future. Sheetfed Offset will be there to print mainly high quality graphics and boxes.

 

[UberTech]

For the time being I don't think inkjet is supposed to replace offset. There is a gap between digital and offset (although shrinking everyday) and inkjet will fill that gap and absorb digital. Im not sure about your area but where I am runs are getting shorter and shorter and the quality of digital is sufficent to abosrb work from offset, it's not quite there but close enough.

As for inks, I have worked in areas where people have half million dollar machines and are fully prepared to run third party consumables and servicing to cut costs. At the end of the day if you have Product A and Product B running thru your machine and the only difference seems to be who write the cheque out to then it makes sense to run with the cheaper guy.

 

[John W]

Take the Fuji JetPress, a cleverly designed mix of a traditional offset press married to an inkjet system. The working components are operator interchangeable (cleaning pad rollers and ink heads etc). The ink is primarily current quick dry ink (nowhere near toner cost) and a coating seals the substrate before the heads spray. The transport is esssentially pass through (not around cylinders). it can handle up to 15-18pt board. Add a spot varnish coater (just another color really) and away we go. Once they get smart enough in Japan to spread the feed and delivery more apart and insert a second and third color head printing green, orange, violet (a la FM6 - BTW, Serendipity already has the profiles to do this for an Epson 9900!), so PMS colors can be delta close and even think about adding gold, silver and opaque white adapted to it in the future, it is MHO that this nearly 29" wide unit will take all kinds of offset business away when runs are 5K and less (eg: Pharmceutical cartons in batch quantity).
I really cannot wait for this to happen and have my million dollar P.O. in hand!
John

 

[amsman]

All previous posts seem to paint a similar picture and vision of the future in printing, and after selling up in 2009 after 17 years in the Industry, I am of the same opinion.

My main observation is that the GFC has speed up that rate of change. While Offset Machinery prices go through the floor, owners need to automate or cut costs to stay afloat so new technologies, digital, ctp, prepress have changed dramaticly within the last 2 years.

I am out of the indusrty now, but still follow the advancing technology, it stays in your blood.....

 

[Yoga]

My main observation is that the GFC has speed up that rate of change. While Offset Machinery prices go through the floor, owners need to automate or cut costs to stay afloat so new technologies, digital, ctp, prepress have changed dramaticly within the last 2 years.

Could you please elaborate on that one?

Regards,,
Yoga

 

[amsman]

Elaborating

Elaborating

10-15 Years ago you could purchase a 4-5 Colour Press or any Equipment for that mattter, (Heidelberg, Komori etc.) and the machine would hold its resale value reasonably well, you could almost add it to your retirement fund. Now the second hand market is flooded with cheap machinery due to companies closing and throwing equipment into the market at fire sale prices or switching to digital and selling off all of their unused, non profitable equipment.

CTP for example, the technology changed so quickly that the companies that jumped in first paid enoumously for equipment that de-valued quicker than your Motor Vehicle.....not to mention the uptake of digital no longer required CTP.

Now with Digital boxes ( Xerox, Konica etc. ) 4-5 years and their almost unsaleable, and without a service contract unuseable. With speed, features and quality improving every new release, your equipment becomes uncompetitive even faster. Even click rates have dropped dramaticaly in the last 6-7 years.

To close, the high cost of setup in the printing industry used to be offset )) by the retained value of your equipment, now companies still have the high equipment costs, with nearly zero chance of recovering cash at the end of the lease.....

 

[Yoga]

Thanks amsman1

Wish new offset presses were getting cheap too...like computers!