Toner vs. Inkjet stickers?

[jdodoubleg]

Is there a case to be made for toner-based stickers? We currently print 99% of our stickers on a wide format Epson inkjet using any number of adhesive vinyl substrates, then laminating.

I am trying to convince my boss that we can print stickers on our Ricoh 7210x faster and without laminate. We use the laminate on the inkjet for durability.
Is this correct though? Can stickers be as durable or durable enough when printed on a toner-based machine without laminate? Should we add laminate to the toner-based stickers?

The idea is to recoup printing time from the wide format epsons for larger printing runs.
Management is dead set on an inkjet sticker on vinyl with laminate.
Is there a resource that I can point them too?

Or is this not a good idea?
Thanks for any ideas and/or help.

 

[pippip]

No, the standard would be inkjet, vinyl, laminate for a quality product.
You have the flexibility of any size and any shape without trouble.

We do a mix of both depending on use. I have clients I use prediecut sheet labels on the Xerox for the likes of sandwiches etc.
Then I have wide format for more durable stickers that are intended to be seen for a while or need custom sizes.
We also have a paper self adhesive for wide format for custom paper labels.

Remember the laminate is also a UV protection to prevent fading.

 

[Shawnd]

For short run stuff we print on the Ricoh's using precut sheets, those sheets are not cheap.

 

[jdodoubleg]

What about indoor stickers? Wouldn't toner prove to be durable enough as long as the elements aren't involved?

 

[Stickman42]

"durable enough" is subjective.

I've printed many stickers/labels on our Xerox color laser equipment over the years. Various uses for them. I've never had a client say they didn't hold up to their expected level of durability.

 

[pippip]

It's customer perception too. If you hand your client paper stickers and either you or another printer have provided laminated vinyl then your product looks inferior and as mentioned laminated vinyl is the industry norm.

 

[Ynot_UK]

We produce sheets of small self adhesive labels on Kernow Coatings self adhesive laser film substrate, this is available in 'permanent' and 'marine grade' adhesive flavours.
The SRA3 sheets are run on our KM C4080, then gloss laminated before being kiss cut on the Veloblade digital die cutter and finally guillotined to finished sheet size.

The main difference to the user/consumer between this process and inkjet vinyl product is the latter is considerably thicker/heavier. There is a greater dependency on the surface being dry, clean and perfectly smooth for the laser film to adhere perfectly (i.e. without accentuating dings, dots and trapped air bubbles)

For small labels, it is a fast and cost effective method of producing a high quality kiss cut product. However, tempting as it may be, we would not recommend this dry toner process for labels greater than A5 size, as the application really has to be made so carefully (slowly and from the centre, smoothing out) otherwise trapped air bubbles will render an unsightly product. Heavier vinyl substrate is much more forgiving in this respect. Perhaps one day a nice thick dry toner synthetic substrate will be available, that alleviates these issues... we would welcome that very much.

The Kernow product is by no means cheap, but we've found it to be the best of what we've tried out.

 

[gazfocus]

We produce sheets of small self adhesive labels on Kernow Coatings self adhesive laser film substrate, this is available in 'permanent' and 'marine grade' adhesive flavours.
The SRA3 sheets are run on our KM C4080, then gloss laminated before being kiss cut on the Veloblade digital die cutter and finally guillotined to finished sheet size.

The main difference to the user/consumer between this process and inkjet vinyl product is the latter is considerably thicker/heavier. There is a greater dependency on the surface being dry, clean and perfectly smooth for the laser film to adhere perfectly (i.e. without accentuating dings, dots and trapped air bubbles)

For small labels, it is a fast and cost effective method of producing a high quality kiss cut product. However, tempting as it may be, we would not recommend this dry toner process for labels greater than A5 size, as the application really has to be made so carefully (slowly and from the centre, smoothing out) otherwise trapped air bubbles will render an unsightly product. Heavier vinyl substrate is much more forgiving in this respect. Perhaps one day a nice thick dry toner synthetic substrate will be available, that alleviates these issues... we would welcome that very much.

The Kernow product is by no means cheap, but we've found it to be the best of what we've tried out.

Sorry to jump on the thread but can I ask what vinyl you use for stickers on your wide format (if you do?) We are just getting into eco-solvent and bought metamark MD100 vinyl and it feels very thin once it's been printed on.

Anyway, back to the topic on hand...we print a lot of sheet stickers on our Konica C3070 but tend not to laminate them (I think you'd need a cold laminator if you were laminating and ours isn't cold. We then cut them using our sheet fed cutters so we can still do any shape and size (up to SRA3). If you get a good quality gloss self adhesive paper you can get away without laminating and our customers seem happy enough. We also do roll to roll labels on our memjet printer, which depending on the customer/order get laminated then cut - I'd never consider doing 'inkjet' stickers without laminating.

If you're going to do labels on a digital press, you really need to be getting a sheet fed cutter of some description, so you can just buy uncut media and cut once printed. Ynot_UK mentioned the Veloblade which is a very nice but pricey machine. We have an Intec LC600 and also an Intec FB8000Pro which are much more affordable options. There's also the Graphtec F-Mark II which will do the job.

 

[allyshaw]

Durability: Choose toner for outdoor use or situations where the stickers will face exposure to elements.
Printing Speed: If you need to print large quantities quickly, a toner printer might be better.
Image Quality: Choose inkjet for photo-realistic images or designs with smooth gradients.
Cost: If budget is a major concern, an inkjet printer and ink cartridges are generally cheaper.
Material Compatibility: Ensure the sticker paper you want to use is compatible with your chosen printer type.

 

[gazfocus]

D………

I don’t appreciate replies with spammy links in them. Thanks anyway.

 

[Ynot_UK]

Some of that advice is questionable IMO, for example...
Durability - vinyl substrates typically quote outdoor durability lifespan, in years. Choosing the most suitable laminating film, e.g. Anti-graffiti coated, is equally relevant. Unless for very short term or one-off use, such as for protest placards, I can't think where dry toner is preferable for outdoor use.
Cost - In terms of production, a square metre of toner coverage will always be significantly cheaper than a square metre of ink. At production grade (as that's what this forum is about) in terms of equipment, the outlay or lease is probably similar (e.g. take an HP Latex vs a dry toner press from the big four), however you use the right solution for the job

 

[gazfocus]

Some of that advice is questionable IMO, for example...
Durability - vinyl substrates typically quote outdoor durability lifespan, in years. Choosing the most suitable laminating film, e.g. Anti-graffiti coated, is equally relevant. Unless for very short term or one-off use, such as for protest placards, I can't think where dry toner is preferable for outdoor use.
Cost - In terms of production, a square metre of toner coverage will always be significantly cheaper than a square metre of ink. At production grade (as that's what this forum is about) in terms of equipment, the outlay or lease is probably similar (e.g. take an HP Latex vs a dry toner press from the big four), however you use the right solution for the job

Agreed though I think his post was more to gain a link to his website than actually trying to be helpful.

 

[Possumgal]

Back when many toner machines used an oil in developing, prints were shiny and might have looked more expensive. Now that so many prints have a matte finish, that would also tend to look cheaper and less durable to the customer. If you used a printer that has the capability of using a clear toner, that would help that problem.

 

[jdodoubleg]

We have officially moved our 2" and 3" indoor glossy stickers to the Ricoh. Based on volume we may move other indoor stickers to our Ricoh as well and then die-cut them. We are finding we don't need to laminate these as many of the designs are seasonal and they are not expected to last long term. Thanks for all the replies