Understanding Color Calibration Process - I feel stupid - what am I missing?

[bcr]

I didn't really have this problem before with our Xerox printers because they seemed to for the most part hold their colors with a reasonable degree of consistency.
I had other problems with Xerox that were insurmountable but colors seemed to be fairly stable. If the colors seemed like they were drifting we would use the EFI Color Calibrator and then keep printing.

Canon - it's a completely different story.
After talking to their expert that they sent out to train me today, I've come to the conclusion that I know nothing.

What I need:
A consistent process I can teach to every member of our print team to calibrate the printers so we know that colors are printing to about the same standard across our entire fleet (with a reasonable margin of difference from printer to printer).

Realistic Expectations or am I being unrealistic?
We aren't expecting miracles but when I color calibrate our Canon printers (we have four Canons) I get wildly different results depending on the steps I take. The photo below were all printed on the same printer, same paper, same file but after taking slightly different calibration steps using the Fiery Calibrate tool in Fiery with an EFI X-Rite i1Pro3 color calibrator.

The question is... which color is the right color and how would you know and verify that?
Except, I'm not looking for an answer for THIS file. I'm looking for an answer for ALL the customers files.

Canon has not been able to give me that answer or procedure/steps. They just fixate on one file not realizing I need a process because we cannot calibrate the printers between every single job 100 times a day, we are a short run print shop. We tell customers that colors won't come out consistently run to run but there should still be some sort of baseline expectation.

The expert is going to "research" but right now he's trying to pitch me software and color profiling systems that I'm sure will end up expensive. What exactly is the point of the spectrometer and fiery calibrator if we can't produce reliable results.

We also need a way to know that a color change problem isn't just a "recalibrate the colors" issue and is a "fix the drum or developer or whatever" issue.
Is there an expert out there who actually knows what they're doing and can train me on how to use the Fiery calibrator properly with canon equipment and get reliable output?
Because right now I feel incredibly uneducated in this area.




View attachment 292656

I can't help you but just wanted to say I appreciate this post.. as someone who regularly posts a disclaimer before many of my queries on here that I don't really know what I am doing when it comes to colour and prepress and am self taught, it's refreshing to see a post like this.

 

[GotToner?]

I didn't really have this problem before with our Xerox printers because they seemed to for the most part hold their colors with a reasonable degree of consistency.
I had other problems with Xerox that were insurmountable but colors seemed to be fairly stable. If the colors seemed like they were drifting we would use the EFI Color Calibrator and then keep printing.

Canon - it's a completely different story.
After talking to their expert that they sent out to train me today, I've come to the conclusion that I know nothing.

What I need:
A consistent process I can teach to every member of our print team to calibrate the printers so we know that colors are printing to about the same standard across our entire fleet (with a reasonable margin of difference from printer to printer).

Realistic Expectations or am I being unrealistic?
We aren't expecting miracles but when I color calibrate our Canon printers (we have four Canons) I get wildly different results depending on the steps I take. The photo below were all printed on the same printer, same paper, same file but after taking slightly different calibration steps using the Fiery Calibrate tool in Fiery with an EFI X-Rite i1Pro3 color calibrator.

The question is... which color is the right color and how would you know and verify that?
Except, I'm not looking for an answer for THIS file. I'm looking for an answer for ALL the customers files.

Canon has not been able to give me that answer or procedure/steps. They just fixate on one file not realizing I need a process because we cannot calibrate the printers between every single job 100 times a day, we are a short run print shop. We tell customers that colors won't come out consistently run to run but there should still be some sort of baseline expectation.

The expert is going to "research" but right now he's trying to pitch me software and color profiling systems that I'm sure will end up expensive. What exactly is the point of the spectrometer and fiery calibrator if we can't produce reliable results.

We also need a way to know that a color change problem isn't just a "recalibrate the colors" issue and is a "fix the drum or developer or whatever" issue.
Is there an expert out there who actually knows what they're doing and can train me on how to use the Fiery calibrator properly with canon equipment and get reliable output?
Because right now I feel incredibly uneducated in this area.




View attachment 292656

This is a lot, but is VERY complete. Yes, perform Auto-Gradation is there twice. I don't generally do all these, but when it HAS to be right... Give this a whirl!

Steps to Perform Fiery Calibration
Make sure that your machine is "warm" by running some non-color-critical warm-up prints)

Perform Auto Color Mismatch
• Load 11”x17” Hammermill 28# (or Customers equivalent) Color Copy paper in Any Tray (Tray 1 or 3 recommended)
• Perform Auto Correct Color mismatch at the imagePRESS control panel selecting
• Settings/Registration>Adjustment/Maintenance>Adjust Image Quality>Auto Correct Color Mismatch
• Select Start – NOTE: login once as System Manager

Perform Auto Gradation
• Load 11”x17” Hammermill 28# (or Customers equivalent) Color Copy paper in Any Tray (Tray 1 or 3 recommended)
• Perform auto-gradation at the imagePRESS control panel selecting
• Full Adjustment • Settings/Registration>Adjustment/Maintenance>Adjustment Image Quality>Auto Adjust Gradation>Full Adjust
• NOTE: login once as System Manager in order to switch back and forth between scanning methods, off the glass or through the machine is preferred

Perform Shading Correction (note-this is to correct for any variance from head to foot. I usually only do this after a service where drums or developers are replaced. If you skip this you will only need to do Auto Gradation once)
• Initialize Shading Correction (Visual Correction) using the Control Panel of the imagePRESS.
• Settings/Registration>Adjustment/Maintenance>Adjustment Image Quality>Correct Shading>Visual Correction>Restore Initial Settings>Store and Finish
• This will zero out all settings
• Store & Finish Shading Correction values at the Control Panel of the imagePRESS
– Settings Registration>Adjustment/Maintenance>Adjust Image Quality>Correct Shading • Visual Correction
• Select Store & Finish

Perform Auto Gradation
• Load 11”x17” Hammermill 28# (or Customers equivalent) Color Copy paper in Any Tray
(Tray 1 or 3 recommended)
• Perform auto-gradation at the imagePRESS control panel selecting Full Adjustment
• Settings/Registration>Adjustment/Maintenance>Adjustment Image Quality>Auto Adjust Gradation>Full Adjust
• NOTE: login once as System Manager in order to switch back and forth between scanning methods, off the glass or through the machine is preferred

Perform Auto Correct Color Tone Settings
• Perform the Auto Correct Color Tone procedure at the imagePRESS Control Panel.
• Settings/Registration>Adjustment/Maintenance>Adjustment Image Quality>Auto Correct Color Tone • Yes “Did you already perform Auto Gradation
• Select Start Correction
• Take the print out and follow instruction on the control panel.

Perform Fiery Calibration
• Open Command Workstation
• Connect to your Fiery DFE
• User Name: Admin
• Password: Fiery.1
• Fiery Calibration using the customer’s hand-held spectrophotometer.
• From the Job List view>Select Calibrate>Recalibrate=(Update existing) or Create calibration=(new calibration)> Measurement method>X-Rite i1 Pro2>Patch set=51 random>paper source=calibration media>Calibrate X-Rite i1Pro2>Next>Proceed to scanning the print out using the spectrometer.
• Follow on screen instructions
• After measuring the test target
− Select Measurement Complete
− Select Continue
− Select Test Print
• (Save with Machine)
− Select Apply & Close

 

[YourCastle]

at my previous job (commercial print shop) we went through this process... and wound up exactly where we were before dropping a lot of money.

We got the spectro, we got the software, we got the expert to train me on G7 calibration and explain the deep details to me. Then I trained my team on it, but since it was a complex process, they didn't buy in, so I was left to calibrate every day, but in our environment, color could shift pretty quickly anyways, nothing drastic, but enough.

We wound up abandoning the process and going back to adjust each job (as needed) based on previous samples from our clients. Eventho their marketing team might choose easily reproduceable pantone colors, whoever was the decision make at the time of any given press check might shift the color towards whatever they wanted. Over time, after many decision makers, the ONLY way to produce a client-happy result was to check against the most recent samples.

So, unless your entire print team buys-in ...and... is capable ...and... willing, you might be wasting money.

One goal for my previous company going G7 route was to be able to show that we were certified* to "real" agencies so they know that we can hit color really well. However, the agencies talked a big game, but in the end, they didn't really care as long was it was close enough, which we were doing anyways.

* you had to mail in your color sheets to some company periodically/regularly for certification

 

[YourCastle]

Are all four of your Canon devices the same model? (which models out of curiosity) If they are different models, you may have a constant battle ahead of you.

G7 calibration is supposed to fix this... but didn't for us.

My previous company, we did G7 for small digital, large format, and offset press with the help of a color specialist through Richo who flew in for a week to help us.

in the end, we could NOT even get our Ricoh 7100 and 7110 to match to MY satisfaction and my knowledge and eyes aren't even the best. The woman in my shop with superior eyes got extremely frustrated and quickly went back to her color matching to previous samples manually.

 

[YourCastle]

Because even knowing all those things… how do I know any of the machines is printing the right colors. How do you know your machines are printing the right colors?

for us... we had a D50 color box and would eyeball the previous sample or a pantone book. Only two of us in the shop were good enough to match for our sensitive clients, so other designers or operators would consistently ask us.

Funny thing is, if our client was showing a marketing piece in an environment that didn't match our D50 or just being outside in the sun, as I think D50 is supposed to be the closet to natural light, the printed piece was off anyways due to that environment. We went back to "good enough".

 

[YourCastle]

And quote “some customers are running auto gradation and calibration 2 to 3 times a day depending on usage, coverage and media”

This feels excessive to me but I’m going to try it for a week or two and see if our colors start holding better.

this is what happened for us... it IS EXCESSIVE, because you might have to do it for a variety of substrates. Eventually, I got lazy and only did a common sheet from gloss, matte, and uncoated, but originally, the specialist had us do each coating -and- each weight.

After like $20,000+ in hardware and training... and all my time trying to calibrate for a variety of substrates multiple times a day and answer calibration questions from my team, I finally threw in the towel.

(as you can see from all my posts this was one of the most annoying periods of time in my 30+ year career... only to wind up back at the beginning)

 

[tngcas]

(as you can see from all my posts this was one of the most annoying periods of time in my 30+ year career... only to wind up back at the beginning)

We had an expert come in and try to tell me that it was a lighting problem. Which... made no sense because if I turned off the fiery color management then my gray's printed gray and if I turned it on it printed pink (and you can look at both under the exact same lighting).

Anyways, nearly 6 months of back and forth with them on this, Fiery finally sent in an "expert" who used a G7 profiling device, created a single profile calibrated to our exact machine and now problem appears to have been resolved.

We have a single profile for all the stocks that we can now calibrate against when needed (instead of multiple). The colors appear to be holding on both our v1000 and the c810 (we will see how long that lasts.