Another 'low-volume printer search' thread?!?

[Tricklock]

I think I already know the answer to this, but I could use the wisdom of the experts on this board to confirm...

A little background: I've run a very small print shop for the last twenty years. For the last twelve, my main printer has been a Xerox 700i.
It still runs great, but I can't get service for it anymore. Back in our heyday, we averaged 60k clicks a month, but now it's down to a tenth of that.
Our overhead costs are extremely low, so this still works out to a modest living, but we obviously don't do enough volume to make the economics of a new production press possible.

So here is my question: Is there any option available that can reliably run cardstock (297 GSM) that is economically viable to purchase at such a low volume?

I have a Xerox VersaLink C8000, which is great for envelopes, but too difficult to use for, say, postcard production. Is there any machine out there that is similar, but just a little bit better suited for cardstock?

I've read enough the threads on here to know that this might be hopeless, but thought I should give it a try anyway in case I'm missing something obvious that would be perfect for me. Thanks!

 

[TJPrinter]

It sounds like you're still in contact with a Xerox dealer, talk to them about a used Primelink C9065 or C9070. They will both run up to 350 gsm. I had a 700 years ago and remember it was painfully slow on heavy card, so the Primelink should fit your volume and speed and not break the budget.

 

[Tricklock]

talk to them about a used Primelink C9065 or C9070

Thank-you! That's a good suggestion. I'll look into it. I had a Xerox 700 before I bought the 700i, and the 700 was definitely slower – mainly because it couldn't auto-duplex cardstock. I never had a problem with the speed of the 700i though...

 

[azehnali]

what is your current monthly volume?
also do you know what your per page cost is on the 8000?

 

[Tricklock]

what is your current monthly volume?

Average monthly volume for 2024 was 6,700 color impressions/month on the 700i. A good chunk of that is on 12x18 110lb cardstock... the rest is on 12x18 32# text for booklets.

per page cost is on the 8000?

On the C8000 the "per page cost" is extremely low, but that's because I mainly use it to put a few lines of text (the address) onto envelopes. It's so cheap that I've never bothered to calculate it.

 

[azehnali]

probably the primelink is a good option but you will have to manually do duplex

 

[Tricklock]

Sounds good. Does anyone have a suggestion for what would be the roughly-equivalent KM or or Ricoh model?

 

[Shawnd]

The Ricoh 5300 would be the smallest "Production" printer that they make.

Pro C5300s/Pro C5310s Color Sheet-fed Printer

The RICOH Pro C5300s/C5310s offer professional production quality in a small, configurable size for more efficient short-run jobs and increased profits.

www.ricoh-usa.com

 

[Tricklock]

The Ricoh 5300

Thanks! I'll look into that one.

 

[Castle Lane Studios]

Can you get a used Versant 180? Will duplex up to 300gsm (of course depending in the actual card's stiffness and thickness)

 

[Tricklock]

Can you get a used Versant 180?

I see some attractive pricing on used Versants, but I believe I would still have the some problem: no one to service it. It's confusing to see so many companies that sell used presses without offering a service contract (usually because they are shipping from far-away states). How do they expect that to work out for the average print shop?

 

[TJPrinter]

I see some attractive pricing on used Versants, but I believe I would still have the some problem: no one to service it. It's confusing to see so many companies that sell used presses without offering a service contract (usually because they are shipping from far-away states). How do they expect that to work out for the average print shop?

There are reputable resellers of Xerox Versants that will sell you a used machine and then help you get service from Xerox. These are normally machines that have been rebuilt so that Xerox can place them into service without wacking you with thousands of dollars of parts that would be needed to bring it up to specs for a service contract. Click charges will be higher on older machines but with a low volume maybe it could make financial sense.

Don't buy a used Versant from some guy just selling off lease machines. Talk to your current local dealer that you know and have been working with.

 

[jwheeler]

Sounds good. Does anyone have a suggestion for what would be the roughly-equivalent KM or or Ricoh model?

The C4065 is KM's entry-level production press.

 

[cmitchprint]

So, you went from 60,000 clicks per month to 6700? There are more problems than just the machine age here. But I'm not going into a business management class. To address your question, one suggestion was a Ricoh 5300. I have had 2 Ricohs: A 751EX and a 7100SX. They both have several things bad in common. 1. They band really bad on certain colors. 2. When new, the quality print is really up there but it quickly degrades with age. 3. The mylar transfer belts on both machines ALWAYS lost the foil timing strip on the back long before the belt was worn out causing serious image positioning issues. 4. They both were maintenance heavy. Service was in here all the time. We got a new Canon V700 last year to replace the 7100SX. The ONLY plus on the 7100SX machine was the 5th color station. The Canon has been par excellence on color quality and it doesn't band. I would say almost anything is an upgrade to what you have EXCEPT a Ricoh. I would look in the direction of a Konica Minolta, especially if you know how to do some service work. The bottom line is you need to get a machine you can grow back into since you are going in the wrong direction.

 

[Tricklock]

60,000 clicks per month to 6700?

Yes, I know how that looks, but it was a lifestyle choice and was accompanied by some other ventures that help compensate for the loss of printing revenue. I'm much happier now, and don't plan on "growing back into" a similar press.
My search was really for a printer that would make sense at those low volumes, but I knew that would be a tough ask.

In any case, thanks for your perspective/warnings on the Ricohs. Much appreciated!

 

[namelessentity]

Wouldn't it be easier to just broker your print jobs out at that volume?

 

[Tricklock]

Wouldn't it be easier to just broker your print jobs out at that volume?

Yes, that's likely where this is heading... but we will have to give up a number of long-term customers who use some of our more esoteric paper options or who are always in too much of a rush for that process. We've used 4over for most of our outsourced work over the years, but their quality control isn't adequate to drop ship to the customer, so we always have to pay extra to have it shipped to our office first.

 

[TJPrinter]

There are other alternatives for outsourcing if it won’t work out for a replacement machine, but I think you should be able to buy/lease something that will work out within your budget and volume.

For outsourcing, start with other digital shops in your area. Your best bet would be to talk to them about printing either all 12x18 or 13x19 sheets and you do the finishing. I get mailings occasionally from some nearby shops that offer this service. I’ve never used them, but they are around. Finding someone close eliminates the shipping delay and issues you can get with shippers destroying boxes. Around here FedEx is very efficient at crushing and the basic mangling of any type of heavier boxes or cases of paper.

For your volume, and I totally understand your downsizing, I think you should be able to find something that will work out for you. I strongly recommend working with a smaller local dealer that will be more willing to place a low mileage light production machine, rather than dealing with a sales rep that needs to make quota.

Look at all the brands, a shop near me just bought a used Sharp light production machine and he really likes it, so you never know what’s out there until you talk to multiple vendors.

 

[[email protected]]

So, you went from 60,000 clicks per month to 6700? There are more problems than just the machine age here. But I'm not going into a business management class. To address your question, one suggestion was a Ricoh 5300. I have had 2 Ricohs: A 751EX and a 7100SX. They both have several things bad in common. 1. They band really bad on certain colors. 2. When new, the quality print is really up there but it quickly degrades with age. 3. The mylar transfer belts on both machines ALWAYS lost the foil timing strip on the back long before the belt was worn out causing serious image positioning issues. 4. They both were maintenance heavy. Service was in here all the time. We got a new Canon V700 last year to replace the 7100SX. The ONLY plus on the 7100SX machine was the 5th color station. The Canon has been par excellence on color quality and it doesn't band. I would say almost anything is an upgrade to what you have EXCEPT a Ricoh. I would look in the direction of a Konica Minolta, especially if you know how to do some service work. The bottom line is you need to get a machine you can grow back into since you are going in the wrong direction.

FWIW, the 751s and 7100s were two or three gens ago, and things have much improved. Banding? What's banding?

 

[Tricklock]

The C4065 is KM's entry-level production press.

The KM C4065 is a possibility. I really like the matte toner look on my existing Xerox 700i (plus it is what my customers are used to). Does anyone have any experience with both outputs to know how they compare? Last time I shopped around, most other printer's output had a glossier sheen to them. Is that a problem that has been fixed in modern digital presses?