Varnish on Toner

[nhprinter]

We have a Cannon 7000 and I'm wondering if anyone is having success varnishing over the toner.

My ink company has finally developed a varnish that will dry (sometimes), but it soaks into the toner so it's not near as glossy as most of our customers want it to be. I've tried products like "Kentucky Shine" and they gas ghost and take forever to dry. I even talked to the folks that make "Kentucky Shine" and they say: "We have nothing that will work with the Cannon toners at this time"

The worst part is there's no way I can varnish something that is two sided because of the gas ghosting especially using matte varnish.

FYI......We're a long time offset shop and I've tried running the varnish both dry and wet on different presses with and without an IR drier.

Thanks,
Dave

 

[Albert Noel]

we have a 7000 as well. when varnishing comes up, we either flood aq or we don't do it at all.
i don't think toner was ever intended to have varnish on it.

however gloss and matte aq works well if you have a press that has a coater.

 

[jlind]

Do you think the Canon toner is different from Xerox or Xeikon or Konica? Aqueous coating does seem to work well on digital printing, but the issue is having a small enough press to feed the sheets. You would need a GTO or half size press with a coating tower. What is needed is a small add on aqueous coater instead of small add on UV coaters.
John Lind
Cranberry Township, PA
724-776-4718

 

[dave4shamrock]

we have a 7000 as well. when varnishing comes up, we either flood aq or we don't do it at all.
i don't think toner was ever intended to have varnish on it.

however gloss and matte aq works well if you have a press that has a coater.

We just tried (last night, actually!) running our first job off of the 7000 through the coating unit on our Man Roland for a flood gloss aqueous coating. The job was printed on 120# gloss cover and has about 50% coverage of a solid burgundy on it. They stopped after coating the first side because the coating looks mottled and milky on top of the burgundy solids. Have you seen anything like this before? My initial thoughts are the stock weight and solids might be a bad combination.

We had an iGen3 for 5 years and the problem with that was the coating not adhering to the fuser oil. Actually, the original fuser oil on the iGen worked fine with coating and lamination but they reformulated it to get better life out of the fuser rollers and nothing would stick to it after that. So I know it's not always the toner itself causing problems.

Thanks,
Dave

 

[CTmang]

We too have tried varnish on our iGen3 output with no success. We have been able to apply a flood UV coat with great results. You need to let the fuser oil dissipate for some time first (we usually wait overnight) before applying the UV.

 

[Time4u2]

Varnish/Aqueous - What about UV Coating?

Varnish/Aqueous - What about UV Coating?

Good Morning

I agree with the aqueous coating will work fine on the digital printing from the cannon.

However, UV will give you more protection and a higher gloss level.

I handle national accounts for Tec Lighting and we have introduced a Aqueous/UV Coater for under $15,000.00 that works with all digital printers.

By no means are we the only player in this field. Their must be at least 15 others companies making these UV coaters. The Aqueous is best suited for a Matt or dull coat will add more protection than UV.

The UV adds more protection with any Gloss coat and is cured not dried as Aqueous has to be.

Feel free to ask me any questions about either varnish, aqueous or UV coating. I have sold varnish and sold Aqueous/ uv coaters that retrofitted on sheetfed equipment and now sell the UV/Aqueous line of coaters for the digital print market.

Wayne

 

[lfelton]

Good Morning

I agree with the aqueous coating will work fine on the digital printing from the cannon.

However, UV will give you more protection and a higher gloss level.

I handle national accounts for Tec Lighting and we have introduced a Aqueous/UV Coater for under $15,000.00 that works with all digital printers.

By no means are we the only player in this field. Their must be at least 15 others companies making these UV coaters. The Aqueous is best suited for a Matt or dull coat will add more protection than UV.

The UV adds more protection with any Gloss coat and is cured not dried as Aqueous has to be.

Feel free to ask me any questions about either varnish, aqueous or UV coating. I have sold varnish and sold Aqueous/ uv coaters that retrofitted on sheetfed equipment and now sell the UV/Aqueous line of coaters for the digital print market.

Wayne

Do you sell these in Europe (we're evaluating machines at the moment)?

 

[Albert Noel]

We just tried (last night, actually!) running our first job off of the 7000 through the coating unit on our Man Roland for a flood gloss aqueous coating. The job was printed on 120# gloss cover and has about 50% coverage of a solid burgundy on it. They stopped after coating the first side because the coating looks mottled and milky on top of the burgundy solids. Have you seen anything like this before? My initial thoughts are the stock weight and solids might be a bad combination.

We had an iGen3 for 5 years and the problem with that was the coating not adhering to the fuser oil. Actually, the original fuser oil on the iGen worked fine with coating and lamination but they reformulated it to get better life out of the fuser rollers and nothing would stick to it after that. So I know it's not always the toner itself causing problems.

Thanks,
Dave

odly enough, we also used a manRoland to coat

we've done it over solids before and never had an issue like this.
i find we don't get as much gloss from it as coating regular offset inks, but never had an issue with milky looking results.

may need to adjust the viscosity of the coating. i stick to 25-30 seconds with a (i think) #4 zahn. any faster than that and theres just too much water in it, any slower and it will streak. also don't crank the heat. use minimal IR and keep air flow at the air knives to max and temps about 80-82F at drier screen (cant remember exact pile temps). i wouldn't use the same blanket pressures as normal either.
in fact when we do it, we back off to kiss contact and add just enough squeeze to smooth it out and make sure there's no breakup of the coating.


let me know if any of that helps you
Albert

 

[nhprinter]

I should have mentioned that Aqueous isn't an option at this time, but by the sounds of it.....I guess we're going to have to look into it.

At least everyone is having the same problem.

Thanks for the replies.

(PS) I remember the Cannon rep saying: "Oh yeah.....suuurre......you can varnish over it....."

 

[Time4u2]

You can UV coat if you follow process

You can UV coat if you follow process

Good Morning from the West Coast

I just wanted you to know there is a process to get coating to lay down on the Cannon because of the wax they use.

If you would like send samples and we can coat. It looks beautiful

Doing this with UV works for any of the digital printers that use wax

 

[dave4shamrock]

Thanks Albert! That's pretty much exactly what our coater rep told us to try.

Dave