View Separations without Adobe Professional

[DCurry]

sorry i probably misread. acrobat pro lets you view separations.
why not just get acrobat pro?

Please go back and re-read the very first post in this thread. Your question is answered there.

 

[Visualaid]

Please go back and re-read the very first post in this thread. Your question is answered there.

i can see now..

well, i would say that if there are 7 people who would use acrobat pro then just buy it.
what other software do you have? you can view seps in illustrator cs6 and indesign.

that's all i know of without searching the google

 

[Paul Santer]

Visualaid

I think the original point was how to view the separations without the additional cost of Acrobat Licences.

There seems to be quite a few options that potentially wouldn't require additional investment but they are going to require some additional time, compromise and a bit of sideways thinking. As always if you’re looking to save money then you are going to have to compromise somewhere along the line, and you need to have a good understanding of the capabilities of your existing software and how to utilise these in other areas of your business to save time and money.

I would agree that trying to justify the software investment on a single feature is in this climate difficult, but let us not forget that the full version of Acrobat has numerous features that ease print production and once you start to add some of these to the investment decision it becomes a lot easier to justify.

 

[Sev]

We use seps preview on nearly every job we process.
As a last step we turn off the Black and scan through the job to be assured there is no rogue "Built" Black in the job.
We, quite often get jobs with RGB Blacks or Profile mis-matched Blacks
that must be changed to 100% Black for printing.

MSD

For us, this is the most important use of separation preview. It is one of the most important preflight tools there is. I would much prefer to catch the issue of incorrect blacks using separation preview, instead of finding it out on press, then having to pull the job and fix the files, at our expense. Pretty much every job goes through separation preview for that reason. Now if I could just convince our customers to use separation preview before they submit files, they could save alot of time and expense.

-Sev

 

[DCurry]

Now if I could just convince our customers to use separation preview before they submit files, they could save alot of time and expense.

-Sev

Great idea. Unfortunately, that would require them to know what they are doing.

 

[Sev]

Great idea. Unfortunately, that would require them to know what they are doing.

I gave a mini seminar to a group of our customers on the use of separation preview, and the response was staggering (in a good way). However, that still doesnt mean they are going to actually use it to preflight their own files.

-Sev

 

[Visualaid]

I gave a mini seminar to a group of our customers on the use of separation preview, and the response was staggering (in a good way). However, that still doesnt mean they are going to actually use it to preflight their own files.

-Sev

our customers don't even know how to make a pdf.

 

[Stephen Marsh]

I too think that the Separations feature of the Output Preview window is invaluable, however many don't fully understand how it works as it is not as simple as it may first appear. Not only will it indicate the current CMYK and spot separations and tint builds of a file - it will also indicate potential separations from RGB and Lab elements as current CMYK separations. This can all be very confusing to new users of Output Preview and can lead some users to make false assumptions about the current state of files (which would not be reported when using a preflight report).

The default separations view of show "all" will show true spot and CMYK elements, however RGB and Lab objects will be indicated as being in CMYK, which is governed by the important Simulation Profile (or Output Intent) Profile drop down menu. The "rogue" elements are actually in RGB or Lab mode, however the default display is indicating their potential CMYK separation values. A 0rgb text element may show that it is currently rich black, when in fact it is not, it is RGB. Changing the simulation profile will change the reported CMYK build values of RGB and Lab elements. It is only once a user starts exploring the other "show" colour options that they will see that the element is really in RGB or Lab mode, not CMYK. With the Convert Colors command, one has the ability to convert RGB black objects to K only, rather than rich CMYK black - however this is not visible from the Separations preview and some users may not know that Acrobat Pro even has the ability to convert to clean K only and think that they are stuck with rich black text conversions.

A standards compliant PDF/X file will have an Output Intent profile indicated at the top of the Output Preview window, otherwise this will be indicated only as a Simulation Profile - which by default is the CMYK working space set in Acrobat Pro Preferences/Color Management. If one changes the profile in this menu, the CMYK values stay the same and the colour preview changes (similar to assign profile in Photoshop).

If one is going to use the Separations feature of Output Preview to help visually preflight files, they should probably go through every "show" option and not simply rely on only using "all".

The Object Inspector feature of Output Preview provides an "unbiased" indication of the exact current colour mode of objects, however one has to click on objects, one can't simply mouse over the image for "live" values.

Anyway, the Output Preview window is a fantastic tool that is a lot deeper than it first appears to new or casual users.


Stephen Marsh

 

[leonardr]

I too think that the Separations feature of the Output Preview window is invaluable,

And that's why we made some significant improvements to it with Acrobat XI. I hope that some/many/all of you have had a chance to check them out - we hope you'll agree that they will make it even more valuable!

however many don't fully understand how it works as it is not as simple as it may first appear. Not only will it indicate the current CMYK and spot separations and tint builds of a file - it will also indicate potential separations from RGB and Lab elements as current CMYK separations.

Which is, of course, as designed as goes fully with the name of the window - "Output Preview".

Of course, the default output is a CMYK-based system (such as a printer), but you can easily change that to an RGB or even a Gray-based output! In which case, you will see RGB or Black as the "process colors" (instead of C, M, Y and K).

This can all be very confusing to new users of Output Preview and can lead some users to make false assumptions about the current state of files (which would not be reported when using a preflight report).

Sure, if the user thinks this is something other than what the name says, the documentation says, the help file says. But I don't know how we could help them...

A 0rgb text element may show that it is currently rich black, when in fact it is not, it is RGB.

But when outputting to THAT PROFILE, then IT IS rich black! You are viewing the separations, you are not viewing objects (by default). If you want the objects, that's why we have the Object Inspector panel there...

I don't know how much clearer we could make it...

With the Convert Colors command, one has the ability to convert RGB black objects to K only, rather than rich CMYK black - however this is not visible from the Separations preview and some users may not know that Acrobat Pro even has the ability to convert to clean K only and think that they are stuck with rich black text conversions.

I've never heard of anyone ask us to connect Output Preview to Convert Colors. The biggest request we have heard for "connecting things), which we addressed in Acrobat XI is the ability to view and change the various page boxes directly from Output Preview.

A standards compliant PDF/X file will have an Output Intent profile indicated at the top of the Output Preview window,

As per the PDF/X standard and its requirements for conforming readers.

The Object Inspector feature of Output Preview provides an "unbiased" indication of the exact current colour mode of objects, however one has to click on objects, one can't simply mouse over the image for "live" values.

That's by design/on purpose, because the Object Inspector doesn't just show you a single object, it shows you EVERY OBJECT that intersects with that point at which you click. If you have many overlapping objects, perhaps with transparency or clipping it can give you lots of information.

 

[Stephen Marsh]

And that's why we made some significant improvements to it with Acrobat XI. I hope that some/many/all of you have had a chance to check them out - we hope you'll agree that they will make it even more valuable!

I will try to do so Leonard!

Sure, if the user thinks this is something other than what the name says, the documentation says, the help file says. But I don't know how we could help them...

Just to be clear Leonard, none of my comments were intended to be negative or critical, just stating things as I saw them for the benefit of others who did no know. Not everybody in production has the time or will to RTFM and they just use the software as they see it at face value. This can obviously lead to not getting the best results from the tools. You are right, you can't do much more to help these users, which is where forums such as these are important.

But when outputting to THAT PROFILE, then IT IS rich black! You are viewing the separations, you are not viewing objects (by default). If you want the objects, that's why we have the Object Inspector panel there...

I don't know how much clearer we could make it...

Agreed, it is a rich black using standard ICC transforms. However it is not always that simple. Please refer to my reply next quote below...

I've never heard of anyone ask us to connect Output Preview to Convert Colors. The biggest request we have heard for "connecting things), which we addressed in Acrobat XI is the ability to view and change the various page boxes directly from Output Preview.

It is not really a request to connect possible use of options from convert colours to output preview - just noting that selected options in convert colours can have a dramatic impact on the results indicated in output preview for an R=G=B object. I am specifically referring to the "Convert Options - Preserve Black" command (perhaps it is just me, however taken at face value, "preserve black" is not a very intuitive label of the command). As you know, this command does NOT produce a rich black from neutral RGB objects - even if a rich black was initially indicated in output preview, however as you say there is no way to indicate from the output preview separations window that there is a way to produce a K only object. After conversion with preserve black one can of course view and verify that the result is now K only and not rich black as previously indicated before conversion. Again, as you say, this is all documented - however not all users know this.


Sincerely,

Stephen Marsh

 

[herbert]

Well thanks for the replies..I want people in our company to be able to few PDF with spots, finishes when they require and at any stage...let it be Print, Diecutting, foiling, embossing, management, estimating, sales, account management and so on.....along time ago we used to get something visual when we received new work...something you could hold and assess at any stage...its all coming as in as PDF and that good.

If acrobat Reader had this basic option, seps and overprint...no colour management option, then it would be so helpful

PS i downloaded Acrobat 7.0 Pro for free from the Adobe website...and it works a treat !!!!!!!

 

[herbert]

I want it everywhere in our Factory....little bit expensive

 

[leonardr]

If acrobat Reader had this basic option, seps and overprint...no colour management option, then it would be so helpful

You have to have color management to do all the other stuff. In fact, even Adobe Reader has been color managed for over a decade!

We could put lots of things into Reader, but then why buy Acrobat???

 

[herbert]

You have to have color management to do all the other stuff. In fact, even Adobe Reader has been color managed for over a decade!

We could put lots of things into Reader, but then why buy Acrobat???

I think you are missing my point here Leonardr. I just want to see separations / with overprints and toggle off spot colours, finishing ie emboss, foil, Spot UV. This would be so helpful ...

Example 1. in the finishing area if they could just open a PDF and see what the expected foil area is, we have 160 people working with us, each of our departments would benefit, even QC department could check PDF to final product before despatch.....

Example 2

Estimators receive PDF files to quote from...they cant see the special colours or finishing spot colours....ie some customers name spot colour 'emboss'


In regards to buying Arcobat Pro, I would still buy it for Prepress functions, changing profiles, Total ink coverage, PDF optimizing, export function etc etc etc..

In my opinion you could really capture the market in regards to PDF been used with the Design, marketing and print industry if you made these changes and offer it for free, then make acrobat pro even better than Pitstop Pro...the market is all yours !, you wont believe how many conversations I have with customers, saying they cant see spot colours or finishes on the PDF, because they only have reader

Just an opinion...

 

[Stephen Marsh]

Leonard wrote: "We could put lots of things into Reader, but then why buy Acrobat???"

Herbert replies: "I just want to see separations / with overprints and toggle off spot colours, finishing ie emboss, foil, Spot UV. This would be so helpful ... In my opinion you could really capture the market in regards to PDF been used with the Design, marketing and print industry if you made these changes and offer it for free"

This is where we perhaps need some middle ground. Adobe could release a low cost plug-in for Acrobat Reader that has very limited separations and or other output preview window functions. Or a third party developer could do the same if they think that there is a large enough market for this that would let them recover their development investment and then make a profit.


Stephen Marsh

 

[gordo]

Adobe could release a low cost plug-in for Acrobat Reader that has very limited separations and or other output preview window functions. Or a third party developer could do the same if they think that there is a large enough market for this that would let them recover their development investment and then make a profit..

Stephen Marsh

As long as the introduction of such a product does not erode the profitability of existing products.

Best gordo

 

[Stephen Marsh]

As long as the introduction of such a product does not erode the profitability of existing products.

Best gordo

Agreed Gordo, this would be a valid concern for Adobe and to a lesser extent other developers that have separations views. Would having the ability to visually look at seps in Acrobat Reader erode sales of Pro, if reader can't do all of the editing and all the other things that are possible with Acrobat Pro?


Stephen Marsh