Watching the US wrastle with healthcare

[gordo]

It's interesting that so many folks seem to blame Obamacare for the rise in insurance premiums - and likely will blame Trumpcare the same way - but not many blame the insurance companies. Since they are for profit businesses their prime goal is to maximize profits - i.e. shareholder value while minimizing costs and liabilities. So whatever regulations are put in place their duty is to find ways to do just that. They will charge whatever the market will bear and the regulations allow. I don't believe that insurance companies compete for business and reduce premiums as a consequence. That is not an effective business strategy for them to pursue. What makes sense is to make the offerings as complex as possible so that the average consumer is unable to make a truly effective and informed choice (one of the reasons you have insurance brokers at the personal and corporate level).

IMHO there should be a single payer system for basic medically necessary healthcare services - everyone is covered. But, perhaps options like private hospital rooms, prescription drugs, home care or long-term care should be available through private insurers. Let them compete in that space. That being said they'd probably do what Canadian gas companies do at the gas pump - price match. I.e. if a Shell station raises the price at the pump then the Esso station across the street raises their price to match. Same happens if a station lowers its price. That way the illusion of competition is maintained.

 

[PrintIT]

As far as Health Care goes (to get back on the subject of the OP), as I've said in previous posts, until someone actually addresses the main root of the problem (the cost of health care, not insurance premiums) I don't expect the problem to be solved anytime soon.

Thank you.

I wish we as a people could have an honest discussion about the actual cost, and where the money goes in our crazy health system.

My son was born premature and spent a month in neonatal intensive care. Compared to some of the other kids in there, he was very low maintenance. His biggest issue was that he needed a feeding tube. So basically while he was there they just checked on him/fed him/changed diapers when we weren't there with him.
The bill for this was just a hair under $1,000,000 (which was covered by insurance). $33,000 per day (this was just post birth care - the birth was a separate ridiculous bill). Where does all this money go? The doctors and nurses salaries are a tiny fraction of that. The hospital claims it barely makes a profit in its annual report. He didn't require any significant medication.

It's mind boggling.

 

[Guest]

That's why Trudeau called Trump and begged to renegotiate NAFTA after Trump threatened to kill it. I still hope he kills it.

Fake news, Alternative news? What's your source?

How about the NY post? Although it was widely reported.
http://nypost.com/2017/04/27/mexico-canada-persuaded-trump-not-to-withdraw-from-nafta/

 

[Guest]

Same here only a 2 person family with insurance through work...my "share" of my insurance premium went from $196 per month to $784 per month and the deductible went from $500 per month to $2,500 per month. And it isn't just the increase in premiums and deductibles but they also eliminated almost all of the "preventative" healthcare the used to be paid for 100% whether you had met your deductible like mammograms, lab tests, x-rays, etc and now they pay nothing on that until you meet your very high deductible.

It is not that I support the new plan by the Republicans...it that I hate the current plan so much. I am more for the repeal but fear the replace because I fully believe they will take a plan that was bad and make it much, much worse.

I too fear the replace. But unfortunately the original bill added a massive entitlement that allows Democrats and their media henchmen to demagogue it's full repeal.

I do honestly think it will be better than now, but never as good as it was before the shady one party passage of the ACA. The Obamacare taxes that will go away instantly and the ability to buy from carriers outside your state is certain to bring premiums down. I do agree with another post that the cost of actual healthcare is at the root rather than the cost of insurance. History has proven, whenever government tries to solve issues in the market, they are almost certain to create bigger problems as they have here. Unfortunately they are now forever entangled with our healthcare which was the intent of Obamacare in the first place.

 

[Guest]

Well, one might have some reservations about the two, given that bombing ISIS strengthens Assad, and vice-versa. They're both vile, but we need a pragmatic strategy. I don't know exactly what that is, and Trump certainly doesn't.

The HIGHLY SUCCESSFUL MOAB was dropped in Afganistan and the bombs in Syria took out an airport from where the chemical attack was launched. Both actions received overwhelming bipartisan support from all over the world. I've noticed that since the election of Trump we haven't seen the daily ISIS beheading videos on the news. Trump has always said that he wouldn't telegraph his strategy (Classic art of the deal technique). So, although it's easy to say he doesn't have a strategy, nobody but him and generals really know if that is true. Even if there is no strategy as you say, I prefer the enemy not to know either way rather than know exactly what our moves will be in advance.

 

[Yroc]

My 2 cents. I'm a print shop owner that couldn't afford obamacare unless I gave up all discretionary income, ie no weekend getaways, dirt bikes, fine dining, which I consider the only reason to be alive....I paid the $2500 a year penalty for 2 years and my healthy family of 5 lived on.

Then I found the Christian Healthcare 'loophole' I know this doesn't work for everyone, but I'm Christian and for $135 a month we're covered with a $5000 deductible (you can pay $400, no deductible), which is satisfied with any negotiated discount...

So my 8yo had her appendix burst, $35,000 all in, cash discount was 40%, so that satisfied the deductible, I put the remaining balance on my 2% back credit card (they will pay the hospital, but this works better to further lower the cost). Made $420, good deal.

My 5yo had a 103 fever for 3 days, so we took her to the Emergency room, nothing was wrong, they sent us home. $1800 bill, well that is out of pocket, but still all a lot less than the $1600 a month for a family of 5 that doesn't qualify for aid on obamacare. FYI, radiology charged us $35 for a chest x-ray, and the doctor didn't charge us....it's the private hospitals raping us!

I was also pretty disgusted with the appendix operation when I found out the doctor only charged us $1600, the rest was the emergency room and hospital stay for 7 days. We had a nurse charge of $60/hr but always had to wait forever for a nurse, who we talked to about the charge, and of course, they only get a fraction of that....Lots of problems with the 'system' and it's relationship with insurance....

 

[Joe]

It's interesting that so many folks seem to blame Obamacare for the rise in insurance premiums - and likely will blame Trumpcare the same way - but not many blame the insurance companies. Since they are for profit businesses their prime goal is to maximize profits - i.e. shareholder value while minimizing costs and liabilities. So whatever regulations are put in place their duty is to find ways to do just that. They will charge whatever the market will bear and the regulations allow. I don't believe that insurance companies compete for business and reduce premiums as a consequence. That is not an effective business strategy for them to pursue. What makes sense is to make the offerings as complex as possible so that the average consumer is unable to make a truly effective and informed choice (one of the reasons you have insurance brokers at the personal and corporate level).

IMHO there should be a single payer system for basic medically necessary healthcare services - everyone is covered. But, perhaps options like private hospital rooms, prescription drugs, home care or long-term care should be available through private insurers. Let them compete in that space. That being said they'd probably do what Canadian gas companies do at the gas pump - price match. I.e. if a Shell station raises the price at the pump then the Esso station across the street raises their price to match. Same happens if a station lowers its price. That way the illusion of competition is maintained.

It is interesting that when Obamacare went into effect is when the premiums and deductibles skyrocketed and coverages plunged. Why is that? Coincidence?

And if anyone believes your premiums or deductibles will go down and your coverages will go up with the new plan I have a bridge to sell you.

And yes the cost of healthcare is a lot of the problem. My wife recently had surgery. The hospital bill was over $42,000. The contracted price negotiated by the insurance company and that the insurance company paid was a little more than $8,000 so the hospital reduced their original price by around $34,000. So I guess if some schmuck doesn't have insurance he would have to pay the original $42,000. It is crazy.

 

[MailGuru]

The hospital bill was over $42,000. The contracted price negotiated by the insurance company and that the insurance company paid was a little more than $8,000 so the hospital reduced their original price by around $34,000.

See, this is what makes me think that something has gone horribly wrong in the health care industry. It just seems so under-handed and seedy.

If a customer asks me for a quote on a print job, and, I quoted $42,000. and then, through some sort of negotiation, or finagling my final price was only $8,000, then, my customer's immediate thought should be to NEVER do business with me again. Obviously, I was raping the hell out of him in the first place.

I think the hospitals charge whatever they want (what the market will bear) because they can and nobody's going to say anything. Like I said before, I am a firm believer in a free market society, but, in situations where they have a monopoly, or, no competition and no regulation, a free market philosophy is simply a license to steal (see recent 5,000% big pharma increases).

 

[Cornishpastythighs]

How about the NY post? Although it was widely reported.
http://nypost.com/2017/04/27/mexico-...aw-from-nafta/

I guess I missed the word 'Begged' at what point in the news story you referred to did the Canadian Prime Minister beg?. I bet Trump loves a good beg though (Fact Check)

 

[Guest]

I guess I missed the word 'Begged' at what point in the news story you referred to did the Canadian Prime Minister beg?. I bet Trump loves a good beg though (Fact Check)

Quite obvious that Canada and Mexico benefit more from NAFTA than the US or else they both wouldn't have called the same day to try to save it. I'm sure Trudeau called and very forcibly told Trump to save NAFTA or else .

Trump is holding all the cards on this one I'm thinking. Time will tell.

 

[Cornishpastythighs]

I'll let you have the last word on this Kringle. Canada does not beg to anyone.

 

[gordo]

Quite obvious that Canada and Mexico benefit more from NAFTA than the US or else they both wouldn't have called the same day to try to save it. I'm sure Trudeau called and very forcibly told Trump to save NAFTA or else .

Trump is holding all the cards on this one I'm thinking. Time will tell.

Maybe not. On just one point - Canada is the biggest export market for 35 of 50 states. This article spells out the numbers of US jobs that are dependent on US/Canada trade: http://www.canadianbusiness.com/eco...many-american-jobs-depend-on-canada-us-trade/

 

[Guest]

Maybe not. On just one point - Canada is the biggest export market for 35 of 50 states. This article spells out the numbers of US jobs that are dependent on US/Canada trade: http://www.canadianbusiness.com/eco...many-american-jobs-depend-on-canada-us-trade/

US ran an 11 BILLION Dollar trade deficit with Canada in 2016. Not sure how it cuts by state.... but we are overall losing by 11 BILLION per year. Trump is the President of all the states, not just 35. He has promised to even these deals out. It's great to see there are patriotic Canadians that advocate on the behalf of Canada.... But now we have a US President that will advocate on behalf of the US. We have become a debtor nation and need to get our house in order. "Reciprocal Trade" is what Trump advocates for.... Dollar for dollar.

We had an overall trade deficit of $502 BILLION in 2016. That would pay for A LOT of healthcare.



OH Man.... politics on Friday afternoon???? Not sure why I jumped into this right before the weekend?? LOL. I think I'll take Mailguru's advice and go find a cold one.

Have a great weekend all !

 

[Cornishpastythighs]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrA4V6YF6SA

Enjoy your friendly neighbour to the North.

 

[gordo]

US ran an 11 BILLION Dollar trade deficit with Canada in 2016. Not sure how it cuts by state.... but we are overall losing by 11 BILLION per year. Trump is the President of all the states, not just 35. He has promised to even these deals out. It's great to see there are patriotic Canadians that advocate on the behalf of Canada.... But now we have a US President that will advocate on behalf of the US. We have become a debtor nation and need to get our house in order. "Reciprocal Trade" is what Trump advocates for.... Dollar for dollar.

We had an overall trade deficit of $502 BILLION in 2016. That would pay for A LOT of healthcare.



OH Man.... politics on Friday afternoon???? Not sure why I jumped into this right before the weekend?? LOL. I think I'll take Mailguru's advice and go find a cold one.

Have a great weekend all !

There's an easy fix for that. Stop buying Canadian oil and gas (we are your largest supplier). I don't think most Americans understand the implications of their move from a manufacturing economy to a service economy and the impact of automation in what manufacturing is done. Just look at your own print shop. Those jobs won't be coming back.

 

[keith1]

No surprise here folks. The most messed up country on the planet. But there's hope. I hear Caitlyn Jenner is considering politics.

 

[Keith]

Lately, I've been wondering why we can't figure out healthcare. But what I've always felt, free market capitalism has no place in health care. It should not be operated like a business. Perhaps this is over simplification but I look at our industry or just about any other industry and understand that things are sold on value. What are they willing to pay for something. Take a look at old muscle cars. They are are only worth something because someone wants it. Usually rich dudes with money to burn. Not apply this to health care. What is a human life worth? I think we could all agree that you can't put a price tag or monetary value on a human life. So what do you charge someone to keep them alive? Answer? What the market will bear? Psh! Nope! You charge whatever the hell you want. Because life is priceless.

I'm not trying to give an opinion, just making an observation. What I will give an opinion on, is the lack of logic, compromise, and responsibility. Everyone wants to do things their way, they demonize people with a different opinion, and blame others when things break. It's disgusting. All the name calling. No one wants to sit down and ask, "How can we achieve this common goal together?" Instead, they say, "How can I do this better than you because you're stupid and your idea sucks."

Ugh. Grow up already. (I'm talking to the politicians)

 

[DYP]

Who do want deciding what your life is worth?

 

[kansasquaker]

The only reason health care is so screwed up today is because the government has already mangled the markets for both care and insurance. Neither resembles anything close to a free market. The feedback from pricing has been completely destroyed. I don't understand why people think certain goods must be handled by the government. Have you ever had a problem finding a restaurant, print shop, grocery store, gas station etc? You absolutely must have food and yet the competition there is so strong that most prepress techs earn about 10 loaves of bread per hour (poor Jean Valjean). Health insurance especially can work the same way. Get rid of the mountain of rules, the special deals, assigned monopolies, mandatory coverages etc. Let me buy insurance for what I want to insure, from anybody who wants to sell it to me, for a price we both find agreeable. You know, like, freedom?

A certain portion of the population will require, and should receive free or subsidized care. We should discuss who they are, what the costs will be and how best the government can deliver care for those people. The rest of us should be left alone. I for one am completely unwilling to pay for the care of an able bodied person who is unwilling to work. No person is entitled to my time or skills and no person should be entitled to those of a doctor either.

 

[Guest]

the only reason health care is so screwed up today is because the government has already mangled the markets for both care and insurance. Neither resembles anything close to a free market. The feedback from pricing has been completely destroyed. I don't understand why people think certain goods must be handled by the government. Have you ever had a problem finding a restaurant, print shop, grocery store, gas station etc? You absolutely must have food and yet the competition there is so strong that most prepress techs earn about 10 loaves of bread per hour (poor jean valjean). Health insurance especially can work the same way. Get rid of the mountain of rules, the special deals, assigned monopolies, mandatory coverages etc. Let me buy insurance for what i want to insure, from anybody who wants to sell it to me, for a price we both find agreeable. You know, like, freedom?

A certain portion of the population will require, and should receive free or subsidized care. We should discuss who they are, what the costs will be and how best the government can deliver care for those people. The rest of us should be left alone. I for one am completely unwilling to pay for the care of an able bodied person who is unwilling to work. No person is entitled to my time or skills and no person should be entitled to those of a doctor either.

couldn't agree more! Great post!