What do you think is the best proofing media?

Scott Martin

New member
I like to poll users with this question about once a year. What do you think is the best proofing media for SWOP3 and GRACoL? Please list the papers that you've tested. I'm looking for responses from people that have come to their conclusions from testing a variety of recent paper media. Details appreciated.
 
Hi Scott,

This is a bit like asking, "What is the best car?" It depends on the needs and the budget. After years of testing and using many different proofing papers the issue for me breaks down to a few criteria.

1. Color: must be bright enough and BLUE enough to simulate the brightest and bluest press substrate you need to simulate. Assuming we're discussing inkjet proofing, press substrate color can be simulated, but there are limits to this as the dot added to the background to adjust its hue will also darken it, and this can be a more visible error than the hue difference. Bluish proofing papers have an easier time matching warmer press stocks than vice versa as mostly yellow dot is added, which barely affects the L* value (warmer stocks are also generally darker, further easing the difficulty of the match). To match GRACoL or Fogra 39 (95 0 -2) you should start with a proofing paper that is at least 95 L* and at least -2 b* (a* is usually close to 0 in proofing papers) but can be as much as -4 b*. If you're using an HP Z31/3200 the Gloss Enhancer (very nice) will reduce paper brightness by about 1 L*, so with these printers start with a brighter paper, perhaps 96 L*. If you go higher than that you'll probably be using a paper with excessive levels of optical brighteners. I'd say the same with any paper bluer than about -4 b*. Avoid "photo" papers that are not specifically designated for proofing as they are often loaded with OBAs. You can test with a UV black light to be sure.

2. Ink limit: The paper needs to accept enough ink to achieve the target gamut on your printer.

3. Surface characteristics: Gloss differential should be minimal with the ink you're using.

4. General look and feel. This should bear some relationship to the press substrate, but only general. Satin proofing papers can be used for both coated and uncoated simulations and are thus the most versatile. For newsprint I would use a real newsprint proof paper.

5. Cost. Remember that only a few mills make proof papers and that many high-priced media sold by printer and RIP manufacturers are available in "plain vanilla" packaging from paper converters such as Mid States and Alameda. Compare specs and ask for samples for testing.

Be wary of recommendations made by anyone insisting that one particular paper is "the best." Remember that RIP and printer manufacturers are skillful at creating print environments (ink limits, linearizations, profiles) that exploit their own media's potential and may have no interest in making other papers look as good. The only way to judge a paper's quality and suitability is to calibrate the RIP and printer correctly for it, and few users have this knowledge and skill. Most find it easier to use the "recommended" paper and proclaim it "best," which for them is actually true.

Disclaimer: I myself sell EFI Validation Media and Mid States proofing papers, so these recommendations are not brand-neutral. I really like EFI Validation 250 Satin and Mid States White Satin 230 and Semi Matte DP for general-purpose proofing. The quality is high and the cost is reasonable. Alameda also has some attractive papers at a good price. Kodak, CGS, and GMG papers can be excellent but are expensive. Be sure that your paper supplier can provide the advice and/or complete print environments for your paper, printer, and RIP or that you have the skill to make such environments yourself. If your media reseller can't help find another one.

That's about it.

Mike Strickler
EFI Bestcolor certified implementer
Idealliance G7 Expert
 
We are looking for a media for our Epson 4800 that best simulates a Kodak Match Print proof. I am not sure if the kodak media will work with the Epson. The Epson Proofing Paper wasn't bright (blue) enough. We had the Epson calibrated and came within 95% accuracy when viewing the exact same file on a Match Print.
 
proofing stock

proofing stock

"This is a bit like asking, "What is the best car?" It depends on the needs and the budget"

I know. :-] I thought it would be fun to leave this question open like this so that different people could reply with "This paper seems like the best choice for us because..." and get a variety of responses. "What's best for you and why?" is the question.

Like yourself, I'm certified in a large variety of RIPs, am a G7 integrator and have been a color management consultant for over 15 years now. I'm well aware of the variables and have favorite papers that I like to recommend but I thought it would be fun to see what other people's favorites are and why.

For example, I'm personally not a big fan of the Satin papers. I like a stock that looks and feels more like the stock a client might be using on press. If a client has a house stock with optical brighteners that is used for a high percentage of jobs, I'm not afraid of using a proofing stock with optical brighteners to match that. Different solutions and approaches for different people.

I've love to hear from more people about the proofing stock they like to use and why.

Scott Martin
www.on-sight.com
 
Tough topic

Tough topic

Scott -

we own and operate a new inkjet converting facility and we have a lab with about 25 inkjet printers. The OBA arguement is tricky. We ahve a white paper on this subject and I can also give you another reserach paper done by one of the largest mills in the world.

Dont listen to the hype.
OBAs are needed in most cases.

If you seek a paper for SWOP and GRACoL that is paper-based instead of RC-based, and is GRACoL/SWOP certified, I would be glad to point you in that direction.

And, yes, I do remeber you....;-)....and the Quato monitor.
Cheers,
Ian
 
"Dont listen to the hype. OBAs are needed in most cases."

That's my take on it as well and what I'm seeing my clients prefer.

"If you seek a paper for SWOP and GRACoL that is paper-based instead of RC-based, and is GRACoL/SWOP certified, I would be glad to point you in that direction."

I'm always on the lookout for something better. But I'd like to hear from people as to what they find to be their current favorite, and why. A short poll if you will.
 
gordo....are you kidding...?....;-)

gordo....are you kidding...?....;-)

You really mean to say that you have not heard the "hype, hoopla and hooey" about the great OBA debate?

Pindg me offline and I can send you white papers, etc.
We did some extensive testing as did some of the major mills.

If OBAs were really that much of an issue with proofing, then the Kodak Approval would have died years ago and been replaced by over-priced CGS Pearlproof paper.

Caveats:

1. We own and operate an inkjet media converting facility
2. We have EVERY current inkjet printer in our lab
3. Our customers range from the top printers in the world to quick printers.
4. We have (almost) every inkjet RIP in our lab

[email protected]
 
You really mean to say that you have not heard the "hype, hoopla and hooey" about the great OBA debate? [SNIP]If OBAs were really that much of an issue with proofing, then the Kodak Approval would have died years ago and been replaced by over-priced CGS Pearlproof paper.

I've heard about the issues of OBAs but not described so dramatically as "hype, hoopla and hooey"
Here's what Trish Wales of SAPPI papers said at a technical printer's conference: "OBAs are increasing in usage. They pose a measurement nightmare and can cause a visual matching challenge. On-line measurements give false readings." Larry Warter (formerly Fuji) who had a prime role in GRACoL and CGats, ISO, etc. has stated that the increased use of OBAs in the past few years has resulted in no papers remaining ISO qualified.

I've done a series of 5 posts on my blog on this topic based on my experience and the research that I've seen. The posts start on March 7, 2009 - the blog is here: Quality In Print

Years ago OBAs were not as much of a concern - however, today their increased use IMHO does cause issues for press and proof alignment. The general lack of awareness and understanding of the impact of OBAs in substrates (press side and proofing) IMHO often makes it difficult for printshops and print buyers/specifiers to figure out why they are having problems "matching" the proof.

If you have white papers on the subject then I would love to read them. You can send them to me at: pritchardgordon @ gmail (dot) com

best, gordon p
 
At This years IPA Tech Conference, both Trish Wales and Mike DiCosola (author of the White Paper Ian mentioned) will be presenting on the affect of substrate variables on color reproduction, including OBA content. My take, OBAs can be dealt with effectively in many cases, but also cause significant issues in others...as OBA content increases, measurement and matching issues increase, particularly when press and proof stock have differing OBA content.
 
Can anyone give me an exact brand and name of media with L95 or 96 a0 b-2 that I could try/but to make a brighter/whiter GRACol Proof
 
ImBet -

Chromaticity has a paper that is called Validation 250 Satin.
It is GRACoL certified with EFI RIPs and Epson/Canon engines.
Profiles are already written and avaialble for GMG, CGS and EFI RIPs to work with Validation 250.

It is priced well, converted in the US and available through a network of dealers in North America.

Chromaticity | Validation Media

Ian
 
I think your company and your media are very good. However I am looking for something a little brighter. At least a L95. Like the original, now discontinued (for some unknown reason) Epson Semi Matte Premium 250 (not the newer darker 260). If someone knows of a media like this I would appreciate the info.
Thanks
 
I worked for Charlie Noonan for years at Scitex in the early 90's. Please tell him I said hello.

Our paper was spec-ed from the ground up to hit GRACoL.
Please dont focus on LAB values only - although ours are: 95.0 -0.50 -2.75

It is in use at some of the best printers and premedia firms in the world.
It is also sold by Tripp and Pitman in your area.

we would be happy to send you a test roll.
Thanks,
Ian
 
Can anyone give me an exact brand and name of media with L95 or 96 a0 b-2 that I could try/but to make a brighter/whiter GRACol Proof

Hi All,
Why no takers on a name of a brighter/whiter media?


Kodak Matchprint Inkjet Media, suitable for use in PSO/FOGRA39 & GRACoL Coated #1 proofing:

* Kodak Matchprint Pro Coated Semi Matte 240gsm Type 1: L*96.4 a*-0.3 b*-3.2 (premium proofing media, more consistent ΔE* measurement passes against Fogra 39 when compared to the SM190 media)

* Kodak Matchprint Semi Matte 190gsm (part number ending in "B"): L*96 a*0.3 b*-2.7 (economy proofing media, tighter regular calibration required for ΔE* measurement passes against Fogra 39 when compared to the SM240T1 media)

Disclaimer, I work for a Kodak distributor in Australia - the above measurements may vary slightly from uncut spectro to uncut spectro. If you need part numbers for ordering from your local distributor, just let me know the roll width.


Regards,

Stephen Marsh
 
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Hi,

Nice discussion guys..but on balance i am totally agree with Mike. Thanks for sharing this information.
 
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CGS ORIS - with OPA or sans OPA is your choice. White point within SWOP, GRACoL and FOGRA standards is your choice.

Since I switched to these proofing papers the consistency roll-to-roll has been astounding.

On another note: Why can't we bypass the whole problem and inkjet proof directly on to press substrates - with ease? There are issues to be worked out here for inkjet inks but it sure as hell beats the costs of Kodak Approval or Luxel/Fuji FinalProof which are nearing the end of their lives.
 
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On another note: Why can't we bypass the whole problem and inkjet proof directly on to press substrates - with ease?

There has been work done on this. Contact Trish Wales at RolocoloR. Fuji is utilizing a similar process on their sheetfed, inkjet press.
 

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