What does CIP4 stand for?
- Thread starter UncleDave
- Start date
Re: What does CIP4 stand for?
For real?
CIP4 - International Cooperation for Integration of Processes in Prepress, Press, and Postpress (formerly CIP3)
Here's a link for those who want to know more:
http://www.cip4.org/documents/jdf_overview/cip4_jdf_faq.pdf
As a full JDF workflow,
We want to really bad, tried several times, ran into software/hardware roadblocks. Not to mention people who just don't want to deal with it.
It may happen some day, probably in the not too distant future, but not ready for prime time I think.
For real?
CIP4 - International Cooperation for Integration of Processes in Prepress, Press, and Postpress (formerly CIP3)
Here's a link for those who want to know more:
http://www.cip4.org/documents/jdf_overview/cip4_jdf_faq.pdf
As a full JDF workflow,
We want to really bad, tried several times, ran into software/hardware roadblocks. Not to mention people who just don't want to deal with it.
It may happen some day, probably in the not too distant future, but not ready for prime time I think.
Re: What does CIP4 stand for?
Well at least for ink key presets at cutters (haven't explored it any further).
We have had good success with the ink key portion IF you get the pressmen to sign on and that can be tricky as they tend to be the last bastion of old school resistance when it comes to "new" things.
Well at least for ink key presets at cutters (haven't explored it any further).
We have had good success with the ink key portion IF you get the pressmen to sign on and that can be tricky as they tend to be the last bastion of old school resistance when it comes to "new" things.
Re: What does CIP4 stand for?
We are currently using the "PrintLink" feature of Prinergy to generate data for ink presets and closed-loop color. The actual setup in Prinergy was the easy part, the consoles out on press have been problamatic, and we have gone through several different GMI color bars trying to find the correct match for our presses.
all in all, it has worked very nicely.
cr
We are currently using the "PrintLink" feature of Prinergy to generate data for ink presets and closed-loop color. The actual setup in Prinergy was the easy part, the consoles out on press have been problamatic, and we have gone through several different GMI color bars trying to find the correct match for our presses.
all in all, it has worked very nicely.
cr
Re: What does CIP4 stand for?
"We are currently using CIP3 to send ink data to one of our web presses, presets the ink keys, does automatic registration and has dramatically reduced makeready times."
Same here mtnman with great success. The only complaint I have is that we use Preps 5.2 which has the capibility of printing an entire job as sigs and sides, however on the press end they say the files MUST be named "pg_001", "pg_002" etc as low folio page numbers for the system to determine web position which causes us to have to print and name each side of every sig seperatly and then drop them individually into a CIP3 spool folder. Call me lazy I guess.
"We are currently using CIP3 to send ink data to one of our web presses, presets the ink keys, does automatic registration and has dramatically reduced makeready times."
Same here mtnman with great success. The only complaint I have is that we use Preps 5.2 which has the capibility of printing an entire job as sigs and sides, however on the press end they say the files MUST be named "pg_001", "pg_002" etc as low folio page numbers for the system to determine web position which causes us to have to print and name each side of every sig seperatly and then drop them individually into a CIP3 spool folder. Call me lazy I guess.
Re: What does CIP4 stand for?
Nah, thats not being lazy... thats what computers are for, but that sux... we use to have a press that used the CIP3 inkdata created by our apogee system for awhile and we automated it so all jobs that were plated, got inkdrive data created and placed in a network folder for the press guys to use.
But all jobs were getting inkdata generated and the press guys were complaining about finding the data in that directory, cuz we only had one press that could make use of the data and jobs would be in there. I think we could of set something up to create for only those jobs, but no-one liked that press and we got rid of it. They loved the inkdrive aspect of it tho, for make-readys.
Nah, thats not being lazy... thats what computers are for, but that sux... we use to have a press that used the CIP3 inkdata created by our apogee system for awhile and we automated it so all jobs that were plated, got inkdrive data created and placed in a network folder for the press guys to use.
But all jobs were getting inkdata generated and the press guys were complaining about finding the data in that directory, cuz we only had one press that could make use of the data and jobs would be in there. I think we could of set something up to create for only those jobs, but no-one liked that press and we got rid of it. They loved the inkdrive aspect of it tho, for make-readys.
Re: What does CIP4 stand for?
Oh... and we have a guillotine that is CIP4 ready for cutting information, but the version of Preps 5.2 we have does not lets us export out that data for them. There are 3 versions of Preps 5; XL, Plus and Pro... Only Pro lets you export out cutting information and we have Plus :-(
Oh... and we have a guillotine that is CIP4 ready for cutting information, but the version of Preps 5.2 we have does not lets us export out that data for them. There are 3 versions of Preps 5; XL, Plus and Pro... Only Pro lets you export out cutting information and we have Plus :-(
Re: What does CIP4 stand for?
We have been using CIP3 for many years. We are replacing with CIP4/JDF and adding more functionality with JDF. With Post press, we will be JDF at Drupa but currently support with CIP3. In fact, we have been driving cutters since late 1990's. As for ink key settings, we have expanded to allow for multiple ink/paper combinations for the press characteristic curves. Typically, a press had one curve set from the factory for one set of inks/paper. This would get the press operator in the ballpark but the curves were based on 1 ink/paper curve from the factory. By allowing for multiple ink/paper printing characteristics, the curves become more accurate for the ink/paper combination and the opera tori will pull up closer to color. This allows for faster make readys.
As for JDF, Printready internal architecture is JDF since the launch almost 4 years ago. We have interfacing to MIS sys ems via JDF. An MIS systems can send JDF stripping parameters and once it hits Printready, the job is automatically open and populate, Signs Station is launched and the templates are automatically generated. Remember the paper/ink combinations? This can be provided as part of the job from the MIS. When the press operator opens the job at the CP 2000 press console, the proper ink/paper characteristics curves are automatically selected. If you have a Preset Feeder Plus other functions are automatically set such as side guide, paper thickness, etc. This year we lanced the Pressroom Manager which collect real time production information form the presses such as makeready, paper used in makeready, how many good sheets are done, how long is the run is, etc. This is captured into the Master JDF on the server
In addition, Signa Station and our MetaDimenison are JDF certified. So JDF has expanded allot in our workflow and will continue to expand with our Postpress at Drupa.
Regards,
Mark Tonkovich
Heidelberg USA
Product Manager, CtP & Proofing
We have been using CIP3 for many years. We are replacing with CIP4/JDF and adding more functionality with JDF. With Post press, we will be JDF at Drupa but currently support with CIP3. In fact, we have been driving cutters since late 1990's. As for ink key settings, we have expanded to allow for multiple ink/paper combinations for the press characteristic curves. Typically, a press had one curve set from the factory for one set of inks/paper. This would get the press operator in the ballpark but the curves were based on 1 ink/paper curve from the factory. By allowing for multiple ink/paper printing characteristics, the curves become more accurate for the ink/paper combination and the opera tori will pull up closer to color. This allows for faster make readys.
As for JDF, Printready internal architecture is JDF since the launch almost 4 years ago. We have interfacing to MIS sys ems via JDF. An MIS systems can send JDF stripping parameters and once it hits Printready, the job is automatically open and populate, Signs Station is launched and the templates are automatically generated. Remember the paper/ink combinations? This can be provided as part of the job from the MIS. When the press operator opens the job at the CP 2000 press console, the proper ink/paper characteristics curves are automatically selected. If you have a Preset Feeder Plus other functions are automatically set such as side guide, paper thickness, etc. This year we lanced the Pressroom Manager which collect real time production information form the presses such as makeready, paper used in makeready, how many good sheets are done, how long is the run is, etc. This is captured into the Master JDF on the server
In addition, Signa Station and our MetaDimenison are JDF certified. So JDF has expanded allot in our workflow and will continue to expand with our Postpress at Drupa.
Regards,
Mark Tonkovich
Heidelberg USA
Product Manager, CtP & Proofing
Re: What does CIP4 stand for?
> {quote:title=chris_r wrote:}{quote}
> We are currently using the "PrintLink" feature of Prinergy to generate data for ink presets and closed-loop color. The actual setup in Prinergy was the easy part, the consoles out on press have been problamatic, and we have gone through several different GMI color bars trying to find the correct match for our presses.
>
> all in all, it has worked very nicely.
>
> cr
Did you know that you can create your own colorbar and then program it on the GMI Scanner to read the settings you want?
Brian Cupp
> {quote:title=chris_r wrote:}{quote}
> We are currently using the "PrintLink" feature of Prinergy to generate data for ink presets and closed-loop color. The actual setup in Prinergy was the easy part, the consoles out on press have been problamatic, and we have gone through several different GMI color bars trying to find the correct match for our presses.
>
> all in all, it has worked very nicely.
>
> cr
Did you know that you can create your own colorbar and then program it on the GMI Scanner to read the settings you want?
Brian Cupp
Re: What does CIP4 stand for?
well, i do know that we have had a steady diet of color bars sent to us from gmi with different swatch patterns that have been made and remade, and they always come to us as illustrator eps, so i do understand that they have a fellow that makes the bars, i am just curious about the notion of us making our own. it always seems pretty heavy when talking to them as far as how critical the placement of the swatches are and so forth.
cr
well, i do know that we have had a steady diet of color bars sent to us from gmi with different swatch patterns that have been made and remade, and they always come to us as illustrator eps, so i do understand that they have a fellow that makes the bars, i am just curious about the notion of us making our own. it always seems pretty heavy when talking to them as far as how critical the placement of the swatches are and so forth.
cr
Re: What does CIP4 stand for?
It is critical on how you modify the colorbar. Each swatch has to be 10mm wide and 10mm tall. You need to keep the center mark and the the two rectangular looking marks. The two rectangular marks are the registration marks the scanner uses to know where all of the other marks are located on the colorbar.
After you have created a colorbar with everything you want on it. You should print out your colorbar on a plotter and take it to the colorbar scanner where you will need to create a new colorbar on the colorbar scanner. It takes time to get used to the trackball and the DOS style menu but you should get it figured out.
Brian Cupp
It is critical on how you modify the colorbar. Each swatch has to be 10mm wide and 10mm tall. You need to keep the center mark and the the two rectangular looking marks. The two rectangular marks are the registration marks the scanner uses to know where all of the other marks are located on the colorbar.
After you have created a colorbar with everything you want on it. You should print out your colorbar on a plotter and take it to the colorbar scanner where you will need to create a new colorbar on the colorbar scanner. It takes time to get used to the trackball and the DOS style menu but you should get it figured out.
Brian Cupp
Achenk
Member
Laurens
Well-known member
... and while you are at it, also have a look at my JDF fan pages. Not that there seem to be that many JDF fans - things have been quiet ever since Rick Littrel wondered aloud if JDF is dead. Has anyone else noticed that a year has gone by and besides some press releases nothing much seems to have happened? One would expect a crisis to cause a major industry push towards automation.
lucascalvo
Member
Compose Express InkScript
Compose Express InkScript
It's more easy, we could integrate to your actual workflow via 1 bit tiff File to create CIP3/CIP4 JDF/CIP4 XML and PDF Report to your old machine to see the inkzone level. But if you have 2 machine, one with CIP3/4 and one without that use card for example we can integrate a solution that call IS Connect to connect the prepress with that press with our system to transform it to a 2000 technology machine
Compose Express InkScript
It's more easy, we could integrate to your actual workflow via 1 bit tiff File to create CIP3/CIP4 JDF/CIP4 XML and PDF Report to your old machine to see the inkzone level. But if you have 2 machine, one with CIP3/4 and one without that use card for example we can integrate a solution that call IS Connect to connect the prepress with that press with our system to transform it to a 2000 technology machine
D
Deleted member 16349
Guest
IMO there is no real push towards automation. The industry is not really serious about it.
There are some critical problems that have to be solved before true automation can be obtained but there still is no recognition even of the existence of these critical problems.
rich apollo
Well-known member
I think alot of folks have been put off by the costs involved in making JDF a practical reality.
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