what works for my needs
- Thread starter DannyB
- Start date
The DI is an interesting idea does anyone know what they are going for these days.
dabob
Well-known member
Heres one on wiredbids.com . .. starting at $1.00 . .. and nice site to look at if your looking for equipment . . . ebay also has some listed from 9,000 - 30,000 USD take a look
https://www.wirebids.com/lots/view/...box-and-more-seattle-wa-click-for-video/31144
https://www.wirebids.com/lots/view/...box-and-more-seattle-wa-click-for-video/31144
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Have you looked at the Ricoh 9100 / 9110? They are rated 110ppm 150ppm for A4 but actually run faster on large sheets, sorry can't remember off of the top of my head how much faster. They are pitched in the heavy production (i.e. iGen) class. Price wise they start at around 2x the price of a similar spec Xerox Versant 2100, but below the similar iGen models. The list on our 9110 was GBP270K, so I guess around USD350K. They are big, with heavy duty construction and the paper path through the machine is not cramped like in the smaller mid production machines. We bought a 9100 a couple of months ago. Some teething problems, but Ricoh are working with us and so the jury's out on whether we'll be happy with it.
Some positives. Firstly the image quality is excellent. Way better than the already very good Versant 2100 (which we have as well). The print is much less glossy than a Xerox C1000, much more similar to litho. The colour consistency is also good. We print a lot of high end hardback books, so have to have perfect quality. We print far less than you, but it's not seasonal for us. In the 2 months we've had it, it's had no problem producing 200K large clicks (i.e. 400K A4s) per month single shift. Far less than it's duty cycle, I can't remember exactly what that is but c1M per month
It's not fair to list the faults as Ricoh is still working on them, but they are significant. We aim to move more work onto this machine once (if?) Ricoh gets it working properly.
Anyway, 2x Ricoh 9110 would easily do your seasonal volume so worth you looking at.
Some positives. Firstly the image quality is excellent. Way better than the already very good Versant 2100 (which we have as well). The print is much less glossy than a Xerox C1000, much more similar to litho. The colour consistency is also good. We print a lot of high end hardback books, so have to have perfect quality. We print far less than you, but it's not seasonal for us. In the 2 months we've had it, it's had no problem producing 200K large clicks (i.e. 400K A4s) per month single shift. Far less than it's duty cycle, I can't remember exactly what that is but c1M per month
It's not fair to list the faults as Ricoh is still working on them, but they are significant. We aim to move more work onto this machine once (if?) Ricoh gets it working properly.
Anyway, 2x Ricoh 9110 would easily do your seasonal volume so worth you looking at.
What are the click charge and maintenance agreements like on a 9110?
You are going to have to speak to Ricoh about that, but roughly in in line with an iGen5. AFAIK Ricoh will only sell & service the 91xx series direct, so you need to contact them if interested.
I've got to say I think the machine has great potential, fast, excellent print quality, stable colour etc., however I cannot recommend it. We still have major problems with ours and I am extremely unimpressed with Ricoh's handing of the ongoing problem. I'm sure that others will have the same type of war stories about Xerox, HP, etc., however we have an extremely expensive machine with major issues that hasn't worked right since installation 2 months ago. Patience is running thin.
That is why i am still very much an HP guy we have xerox and Hp machines and yes they both go down. We just had a J75 down for over a week and xerox did not seem to concerned. But when the Indigo goes down if my local tech can't get it up in a day or two Hp will start flying guys in from out of state and they are in here everyday until it is printing again. Hp will do that for us even though we only have one of there machines there are customers that have 20 plus indigos and Hp will actually give them a full time on sight tech. I just can't get management to understand that they get what they pay for. Cost is the only legitimate reason they have for moving on from Hp which i understand it is all about the bottom line. But that does not matter if the cheaper machines can't do what we need them to.
jwheeler
Well-known member
DannyB, I always start with stating that I am a production print specialist for Konica Minolta in Southern California. I have read through most of the posts and I appreciate AP90's answers. He is correct that the 100 ppm engines out there like the canon 10000, xerox i1000, or Konica Minolta c1100 would not be ideal to handle the weekly volume you're doing unless you plan on buying a few of them. If you don't need any finishing, I can tell you that the km c1100's would be under $100k and there is no base monthly service charge and very aggressive click rates. So buying 3 or 4 of them for redundancy would probably be more cost effective than the other engines mentioned. However, I might also consider the new inkjet press that Konica Minolta has partnered with Komori on called the Accurio Press KM 1. It's a 23"x29.5" press sheet which means you can print 6up letter. It's digital, so you can get press-like variable images. It uses UV inks so it can print on any substrate, with any texture up to 24pt, and is instantly dry. I know your main application is yearbooks, but wanted to mention in case you have other types of business. It uses komori's offset feeding and paper handling system, so sheet to sheet and front to back registration is spot on. I hope this help!
To be fair & for completeness, we've had a "specialist" in to see our machine and within a couple of hours he diagnosed a slight dent in a metal plate deep in the bowels of the machine. I don't know whether it came from Japan like that or if that happened during local assembly. So far, fixing that seems to have resolved our paper handling problems. Fingers crossed the last installation gremlin is now fixed. It's a real shame Ricoh let this drag on for well over a month and that we've had to push them so hard to get a fix.
dabob
Well-known member
Danny . . . gotta agree with you about HP/Indigos commitment to making things right . . . we have had two turbo 1000's (consecutively) and for both machines they ended up flying a guy in from Israel to basically rebuild the machine on our floor . . . and that was for their baselinemodel . . . amazing machine but we have since had Xerox and now a Ricoh and it gets done what we need it too .. but 17 years ago the only game for us was the Indigo technology . . .
I have to thank everyone here for there input i have really gained a lot of knowledge from this. We went and looked at the canon c10000 this past weekend and my boss really seems to like it but we are still a ways away from making a decision. And I am still hoping to get ricoh in here if they ever get back to me.
So Ricoh finally got back to me they are coming in a couple days to look at our setup and see what we do. One thing I really like so far about them is they are saying they can guarantee that our envelopes will run through there machine which is something canon straight up told us they can not do.
We actually have not made a move on a press yes we will probably be looking to buy in November or December that is when the owner likes to purchase. But I think right now my boss is still leaning heavy towards the canon 10000. Another company that we work closely with tried one out this season with success. Plus now canon is trying to sell to us direct instead of a third party.
printing656
Well-known member
Before jumping on the Canon, I would recommend doing another demo of it in a few months to see if the quality is still where you expect it to be. We had a Canon 6010 for several years and needed to step up to something more robust. I did 2 demos of the 8000 (identical to 10000 mechanically) and on the second demo I started seeing all the same issues the 6010 had. Can't hold registration, can't hold half tones, loves to use excessive amounts of magenta on the prints, tough time getting skin tones correct. Looked at a KM c1100 sitting across the room and have been smiling ever since. The drawbacks to the KM as I see them is the finisher can't hold as many sheets and the remaining prints counter isn't working yet.
jwheeler
Well-known member
Printing656, I'm assuming you're referring to the tray on the FS-532 at the end of the machine. There is a DIP switch you can ask your tech to input in service mode that will allow the tray to go all the way down to the floor regardless of weight. They will most likely caution you that this could end up breaking the tray if you're using heavy stock like 12x18 100# text...so just be aware of that. Additionally, you might consider adding the LS-506 large stacker which has a nice rolling cart to transfer your prints to bindery. This holds up to 5,000 sheets of 20# bond. The DIP switch is 3-5=1
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