When or why is an (expensive) RIP important?

[billp]

Yes we've always had one, 20+ years.
We (almost) only print 1 up.
We print 20-40 files a week.
We use the Fiery queue/s, but both the Canon 'Printer Kit' driver (V900) & Ricoh's GWNX postscript driver (C5300s) have these features.
An embedded Fiery adds 25-30% to the total cost, (tho we are not going to add a finisher, just catch tray, we mostly print banners + some SRA3, about 10000 clicks per week - banners are 2)

How does a Fiery RIP enhance productivity for other small-medium printers?
The sales reps advise we'll be fine. idk.
thanks bill

 

[pippip]

I'd love to learn more on this too. From the very little I know the RIP basically rasterizes the file and in doing so enhances colour, profile, detail etc.
Not to mention all the other machine settings. I think the RIP often gets overlooked by just how many default settings it applies to a job that as a user are just forgotten about. I'm not sure you can set colour profiles without one so that would rule out the machine in a print shop environment without one.

I know when we had the old DC242 you couldn't get as good an image unless you had the RIP. Techs used to say the RIP was what transformed the machine from an office photocopier to an entry level production press.

 

[chriscozi]

Ok - longtime Digital Fiery user here.
When it was just one operator (me+25yrsexperience) and a single workstation to send to a digital press then I did NOT need a rip to control for 'factors.'
Now with multiple digital presses, multiple workstations, and a wider variety of work, we definitely need a dedicated RIP for the presses.
What do they bring to the party?
If you listen to RIP sales they "Do It All! Fix Everything! No More Problems! Everything Cots Less!"
So let's get real world.
Here are the functions you will need in various flavors:

Imposition
You can use all kinds of imposition products -
from automated web frontends to
inexpensive imposition software to
using Acrobat/PDF as an 'imposition' engine (see print dialog boxes)
Variable Data Creation / Processing
Varied and sundry products from Microsoft Word + Excel all the way up to dedicated packages.
Color Control
Profile management and per job color adjustment
Color Calibration
Pick your poison- either the builtin software on the digtal press or a dedicated package.
PDF Editor
Primarily a PitStop Pro + Acrobat Pro license or something PDF Native (possibly Affinity Serif Products)

To be continued in the next post . . .

 

[chriscozi]

So should you have a RIP and what should it do?

Most RIP products are lease only and features drive the cost.
Using my previous post as a function list:
Determine which functions you have to have for your business.
Decide which product(s) will provide those functions.
I believe the only RIP function you have to have (beyond generating the bitmap file) is Color Control.
Everything else can be done with other products.

Personally I think EFI software products are overpriced.
The hardware they provide is woefully underpowered, maybe to lower THEIR cost?
We use and appreciate them almost exclusively for Color Control features. Nothing else at this time.
Considering that EFI started life as a "software patent" company it seems competition has been stifled somehow.
Shouldn't we have more and better product options?
And now their print software division has been spun off.
I guess since print is a shrinking market they want to spare their shareholders.
YMMV

 

[billp]

Thankyou chriscozi for summarising & demystifying the black magic of Fiery.

 

[chriscozi]

Thank you chriscozi for summarising & demystifying the black magic of Fiery.

There are many more here who can provide better info. I just tried to summarize MY experience.

 

[Shawnd]

Pretty much every job we print has VDP on it, so the Fiery is needed for ripping. If you are doing 1up no VDP and your happy with color output I would roll with the built in print manager.

 

[YourCastle]

Most jobs I print do not have variable data and only some of them are very complex. I've never "needed" an expensive, high-end RIP. For those extra difficult jobs, i just schedule them to print over-night. I'll start the job 30-60 minutes before i leave just to make sure it's all good, load up the paper trays and let it go all night.

 

[TJPrinter]

From what I have read the Canon imagePRESS V900 requires either their PrismaSync or Fiery to use the inline spectrophotometers on it. If that’s a feature you don’t need the printer kit should be okay.

 

[billp]

Have come round, even though the an E-27B adds $9k au to $30-40k printer, in the scheme of things it'll only add 5% over the 5 years. ie $170k to $180 (inc cpc charges). So yep.

I'm glad it finally 'clicked' - on 50k prints a month 1/2c increase in 'click' (CPC) = $250pm, or $15,000 over 5years.


I am finding negotiating with very the big 3 fraught, imo they are leeches, liars thieves.

Someone at the pub overheard that maybe they might even collude. I dont believe them.

 

[chriscozi]

Have come round, even though the an E-27B adds $9k au to $30-40k printer, in the scheme of things it'll only add 5% over the 5 years. ie $170k to $180 (inc cpc charges). So yep.
I'm glad it finally 'clicked' - on 50k prints a month 1/2c increase in 'click' (CPC) = $250pm, or $15,000 over 5years.
I am finding negotiating with very the big 3 fraught, imo they are leeches, liars thieves.
Someone at the pub overheard that maybe they might even collude. I dont believe them.

Hey - that $15,000 per 5 years is only hmmmm - 15,000/1825 = $8.25 per day or $57.75 wk or $247.50 a month.
For the software, only.
That you THINK you need.
That MIGHT not do what you want for that price . . .
That DOES NOT get an upgrade or transfer to a different machine.
Sigh.
I have been a software consumer for ~40 years.
The cost/benefit ratio has consistently gotten worse in that time.
My opinion only.

 

[TJPrinter]

I am finding negotiating with very the big 3 fraught, imo they are leeches, liars thieves.

If it's not in writing and part of the contract, then most likely this is true. Sad.

 

[chriscozi]

If it's not in writing and part of the contract, then most likely this is true. Sad.

We caught one of them leaving no future date when they could 'adjust' their pricing.
The paragraph just said they would change pricing no more than twice a year - just not WHICH year.
We said '3 years stable pricing please.'
Sigh.

 

[Ynot_UK]

I am finding negotiating with very the big 3 fraught, imo they are leeches, liars thieves.

Do you have a dealer channel in Aus?

Three years ago we made some enquiries via the direct channel and encountered several stereotypical high pressure salesmen and their standard BS, lack of understanding of any detailed technical questions and preconceived decisions on what they wanted to sell. We went on to buy two production machines from a dealer we had a great existing relationship with.

If you have dealer channel in your part of the world, it is well worth pursuing.

 

[billp]

i have tried 4 dealers, they either say sorry we cannot help at this time or dont follow up. they were afilliated with the incumbent. most/all? ourdealers only sell/rent/lease the gear itself & sign up the cpc

they prolly get a kickback on clicks but service repairs toner is booked directly with hq. ie our dealer network isnt competitive.

dealer network may be different with one of the other vendors will try