When proofs aren't proofed
- Thread starter gordo
- Start date
MailGuru
Well-known member
Just a simple observation (even from our own operation):
It always amazes me that when a fail happens, as it will from time to time in our industry, it's usually what I call a "colossal fail". What I mean to say is, while the blame will usually be placed on a specific individual, in reality, the fail occurred with several individuals over several different departments.
(1) It should have been caught by the Account Rep or CSR of that account in the beginning, but, it wasn't.
(2) It should have been caught by the Graphic Arts setup department, but, it wasn't.
(3) It should have been caught by the customer during proof sign off, but, it wasn't.
(4) It should have been caught by final Quality Control before going to press, but, it wasn't.
(5) It should have been caught by the digital or offset print person during printing, but, it wasn't.
(6) It should have been caught by the person shrink-wrapping and boxing the finished product, but, it wasn't.
Do you all also find that to be true in your own operations?
It always amazes me that when a fail happens, as it will from time to time in our industry, it's usually what I call a "colossal fail". What I mean to say is, while the blame will usually be placed on a specific individual, in reality, the fail occurred with several individuals over several different departments.
(1) It should have been caught by the Account Rep or CSR of that account in the beginning, but, it wasn't.
(2) It should have been caught by the Graphic Arts setup department, but, it wasn't.
(3) It should have been caught by the customer during proof sign off, but, it wasn't.
(4) It should have been caught by final Quality Control before going to press, but, it wasn't.
(5) It should have been caught by the digital or offset print person during printing, but, it wasn't.
(6) It should have been caught by the person shrink-wrapping and boxing the finished product, but, it wasn't.
Do you all also find that to be true in your own operations?
namelessentity
Well-known member
Absolutely true, although I feel like typos and layout issues should be 100% CSR/Graphics Arts.
I don't think a production operator or bindery person should have to proof read, they already have enough variables to worry about.
I don't think a production operator or bindery person should have to proof read, they already have enough variables to worry about.
dabob
Well-known member
I wonder how many they printed that way . . . or was it just a Print on Demand item?????
And . . our pressmen catches more typos than anybody else in the shop . . . . it's too bad they make it all the way to the press . . . one today from a customers supplied art . . .could have been a 40,000 piece error
And . . our pressmen catches more typos than anybody else in the shop . . . . it's too bad they make it all the way to the press . . . one today from a customers supplied art . . .could have been a 40,000 piece error
gordo
Well-known member
I was always told that problems seen in customer files were not the printshop's concern. The assumption was that if the file wasn't correct then they would not have supplied it to us. It's not our job to second guess the customer's intent - especially if the proof has been signed off.
dabob
Well-known member
No Title
Gordo . . gotta disagree . .. but take a look at the job I referenced above . . . and we sent them a proof after preparing them to plate and they approved it . . . .
Granted had we not caught it we would have felt no responsibility but we did catch it and that makes our customer very very loyal
Gordo . . gotta disagree . .. but take a look at the job I referenced above . . . and we sent them a proof after preparing them to plate and they approved it . . . .
Granted had we not caught it we would have felt no responsibility but we did catch it and that makes our customer very very loyal
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MailGuru
Well-known member
That's precisely the line of thinking that needs to change. Especially if you want to make it in this highly competitive industry. It only takes a few minutes to bring what may/may not be a problem to the customer's attention, and, then either proceed with the original job as instructed, or, send the art back for them to correct. As dabob indicated, once a customer knows you have their back, they become "very very loyal"
namelessentity
Well-known member
As an operator I agree with gordo, but mostly out of frustration. Obviously if you want to stay in business you need to swallow your pride though.
Also, I didn't realize you were so close, dabob. I'm in Napa.
Also, I didn't realize you were so close, dabob. I'm in Napa.
dabob
Well-known member
I don't see it as swallowing anything . . if anything we are proud every time that we catch a mistake before getting the privilege of doing the job over (usually with a discount cuz we feel bad for the customer)
As a prepress operator I catch a lot of this kind of thing and always let the customer know about it. But if I miss it, it sure as hell isn't my fault as proof reading is not part of the job description. If the customer submits it this way and later approves it before we go to plate then the only party responsible for it is the customer.
PricelineNegotiator
Well-known member
There is a certain level of going too far with finding little quirks with a supplied file, where some unappreciative people find you "hard to do business with".
"No, that was my intent, and because you are second-guessing me, please cancel the job."
"Uhhh, what?"
"No, that was my intent, and because you are second-guessing me, please cancel the job."
"Uhhh, what?"
dabob
Well-known member
never heard that from a customer . . . at least for that reason
arossetti
Well-known member
Maybe not cancel the job but I have seen it where it causes delays which can become a problem. I find most clients want to check off the project from their to-do list as soon as they drop it off to the printer.
MailGuru
Well-known member
That's the very same customer who says: I know I signed off on the proof, but, didn't you see the typo where the word "The" is misspelled as "Teh"? Do you guys even look at what you're printing?
gordo
Well-known member
If memory serves, some of the reasoning for letting customer errors through.
If a possible error in the file or proof is noted by the CSR/Sales rep (whoever is the production gateway) then it should be brought to the attention of the customer. However, once a proof is signed off then it is not the responsibility of the printshop to point out possible client errors. The shop is concerned only with making sure no errors are introduced by the shop's workflow. If the shop starts proofing customer work on press then it is too disruptive to production scheduling for that job, and others in the line, and too costly for the shop to pull the job and/or wait for a customer to confirm that what was noted is indeed a mistake. The customer signed-off proof is the contract between printer and customer and it is the customer's obligation to confirm the contract before signing it off. It is the printshop's obligation to make sure the customer understands the contract nature of the proof and the significance of signing it as OK to go. Knowing this, many shops have a special sign-off tag on their proofs that clearly state the function of the proof and the significance of signing off on it.
If a possible error in the file or proof is noted by the CSR/Sales rep (whoever is the production gateway) then it should be brought to the attention of the customer. However, once a proof is signed off then it is not the responsibility of the printshop to point out possible client errors. The shop is concerned only with making sure no errors are introduced by the shop's workflow. If the shop starts proofing customer work on press then it is too disruptive to production scheduling for that job, and others in the line, and too costly for the shop to pull the job and/or wait for a customer to confirm that what was noted is indeed a mistake. The customer signed-off proof is the contract between printer and customer and it is the customer's obligation to confirm the contract before signing it off. It is the printshop's obligation to make sure the customer understands the contract nature of the proof and the significance of signing it as OK to go. Knowing this, many shops have a special sign-off tag on their proofs that clearly state the function of the proof and the significance of signing off on it.
akalaray
Well-known member
So according to one of our members every person in our shop should be reading what we print? I don't know how much work you do? But we do hundreds of jobs a day. We send our clients proofs so they can verify the file that will be printed. Some people in various shop don't speak english as a first language, let alone proper use of english. I agree with Gordo's last post!
dabob
Well-known member
Gordo . . . in a perfect world what you say would be the bottom line but in this day and age of finger pointing and shifting the blame living by that in most smaller shops could very well be the death knoll of that company. I you are running two or three shifts and demand for your product is more than you can produce you could probably live by it but in these days most of us are lucky to run our presses 6 hours a day, I know that we have 4 presses and one pressman and he generally gets 8 hours but our capacity far out strips the demand. I rant and rave about customers not wanting to learn how to do the job right but in the end I will fix their files if they keep coming back and funding my paycheck.
I am a digital press operator and i have been an assistant on older offset machines and i have always been taught that my job is to look for print quality defects. There is a QC person who looks at a hard copy proof of every job I run and it is there job to look for incorrect spelling and missing images. If she signs off on a job and it is run with a error it never comes down on me. Though I will say that it can be beneficial for me to catch issues before the job is done. For one thing it means I don't have to run it twice. And usually i get a lot of praise for catching a misspelled word or an image out of place.
MailGuru
Well-known member
I agree, to a point. However, as dabob noted, it is a much more complicated and integrated world out there today, than it was 20 years ago. If you are not looking out after your customer, acting in their best interest, that customer will soon find a smaller shop where they get the attention they feel they deserve. It is no longer just a simple relationship between the printer and the customer where there are definitive lines drawn as to the responsibilities and liability of each. There are too many other entities involved. In today's world it's called "supply chain management". A simple error that could have been stopped at the printer (even though it was not their responsibility) will affect the success of every other entity in the supply chain. For instance, let's dissect the event that started this thread.
Supply Chain:
(1) A professional portrait photographer had to take the picture. It probably took several hours and many many takes to get just that right pose. (2) A professional copy writer needed to come up with the right phrase to capture "the essence" of Trump's presidency. No telling how many hours and phrases got thrown out until they found just the right one. (3) The assembled mock-up probably had to go to whoever in the White House handles Public Relations for the President for approval. (4) The approved portrait with the inscription then needed to go to a printer for production. I don't know who prints them, probably the Government Printing Office or an outsourced printer. (5) about the same time, whoever handles the Library Of Congress's website had to post the item for ordering. There are probably several more entities in the supply chain, but, I think I've listed enough to make the point.
Now, the train jumps the track. A Social Site user (Facebook, Twitter, etc.) notices the error and posts it to the Web. Within seconds, the media picks it up and re-broadcasts it all over the world. Within minutes, who ever handles Public Relations Crisis Management for the President is now meeting to put out the fire. Within hours, the webmaster for the Library of Congress takes the item down from the site, but, the damage has already been done and PR Crisis Management is now working on containment.
So, you see, it's not just a customer/printer relationship anymore. What happens in your print shop affects every other entity in the Supply Chain. Had it been stopped at the print stage, none of the PR fallout would have happened. Do you have to have every person in your shop proof read all pieces. No, don't be ridiculous. I teach my people "JDLR" (just don't look right). They don't have to know what's wrong, just that something doesn't look like it is supposed to. Stop the job, bring it to my attention, or, the CSR's attention, and let them say, "No, it's ok. Go ahead", or, "Thanks! Wow!, Good Catch! That could have been a big fiasco if that ever got out!". Just teach them to be alert, be aware! Don't just be a robot going through the repetitive motions of taking a job order and printing it.
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