When to Shingle?

[prepressdork]

Hi all,

I was wondering if anyone can provide any guidelines they use for determining if a job should be shingled?

Thanks,
pd

 

[Alois Senefelder]

prepressdork.



A shingle consist of individual overlapping sheets of Paper - SO what do you mean, by the term "Shingle" ?



Regards, Alois

 

[prepressdork]

Hi Alois,

Another term for shingle is creep. Does this image help?

Thanks,
pd

 

[Alois Senefelder]

Hello prepressdork,



Thank you - now I know what you mean ! - never heard "Shingle" used when meaning "Creep"



Regards, Alois

 

[Schnicklefritz]

Don't know when or why we'd let a job get saddle-stitched without trimming the shingled part. Even when page #s and running heads/feet are close to the trim edge, we reduce the image area to keep those elements clear of the trim. This is from the perspective of a short run, digital press operator -- I don't know if there is a situation in other kinds of printing where you'd want a shingled book.

 

[Joe]

We don't usually apply creep for jobs less than 64 pages unless it is running on a heavy stock. Anything over 64 pages will almost always get creep applied. The amount depends on the paper it is running on and how close text content is to the trim. And we always use creep scale to keep spread crossovers intact but even use it if there are no spread crossovers.

 

[Magnus59]

Once a job is over 36 pages, depending on stock, we look at the content. If there are elements close to the trim edge we consider shingling.
If stock is lightweight or elements do not come close to the edge, then we wouldn't shingle until the job reached 48pp. Unless the content is simple eg columns of text only, we always scale.

 

[Magnus59]

Hello prepressdork,



Thank you - now I know what you mean ! - never heard "Shingle" used when meaning "Creep"



Regards, Alois

Creep is the physical effect, shingling is the method used to mitigate the effect of creep.

 

[keith1]

There is a formula for this that I learned as a film stripper. Trouble is, I forget it. Not much help.

 

[PamO]

There is a formula for this that I learned as a film stripper. Trouble is, I forget it. Not much help.

Here's the formula from Prep's: (number of pages / 4) x stock thickness. For saddle-stitched, this is pages per entire book. For perfect bind, this refers to pages per signature.

We rarely have to use this formula anymore, we're using Agfa's Apogee Prepress Impose and it does it automatically by scaling the page. Works great!

 

[Paint]

We creep once we get to 48 pages, unless it is on thick stock. Easiest formula is divide by 4 then multiply by paper caliper. 56 pages divided by 4 = 14.... then 14 x .0044 = .0616 creep.

 

[tlotzer]

Check this: http://www.internationalpaper.com/to...-caliper-chart
Online Weight and Creep Calculator:

http://www.jumpdp.com/weightcreep.php

I've attached the sheet of thicknesses we use in XMF: View attachment Paper Bulks and Calipers.pdf

 

[kansasquaker]

We use the same (PageCount/4)*Caliper method, but we add 20% to that number. When we measure, we usually find that actual creep is greater than the theoretical value. I have guesses as to why, but they're just guesses. Has anybody else ever looked at this?

We apply creep if the move is .04" or greater.

 

[Magnus59]

This is a calculator I downloaded from a user in the old Scenicsoft Preps forum
I've since converted it to GSM and MM, but it's easy enough to change the stock descriptions and numbers back to imperial.
This calculates both creep for saddle stitched books and spine width for perfect/notch/burst bound books.
https://optimapress-my.sharepoint.c...BCiBqkl7cj7tABLhyFbLsRWsaw2Q2nMjyhOg?e=wMWrby

 

[semi-tech]

I always thought of page count regardless of stock; anything beyond 40 pages saddle-stitch would get creep. But some jobs, done on thin stock, didn't seem to need it until reaching a higher count. But yes, the formulas seemed to be either too much or too little (assuming I applied them properly). Now I will pay more attention to stock. Before, only the obviously thick stocks got creep on some jobs.

 

[MacTwidget]

I calculate creep on anything 24-pages and higher. If the total push-out is less than 1/16" than I don't even bother with an adjustment.

 

[D Ink Man]

There is a funny joke lying somewhere herewith, but we won't go there. I like good taste and tuna that tastes good.

D