Which machine is best for perfection?

[Laxmi Kant Kuthiala]

I am looking to convert my single colour machines to double colour perfectors. We have a fair volume of such jobs. Which is the best used machine that I should buy to do such jobs? The format has to be B1. I am a little wary of Heidelbergs because of the pincer grippers and their maintainence. How good is the Komori 240P? What about the KBAs the Rollands or the Manns? Are there any good or bad year cutoffs for these machines (the year that there was a significant modification to their perfecting mechanism)? I was told that the Millers had the best perfection but the machines without oil bath seem bad buys, also the speed of the Millers (max 10000 but most seem to run at only 5000 to 6000) is slow. Please advice.

 

[NGA]

i think you have to answer a few questions first. maintenance on any piece of equipment is KEY. you can't run the the snot out of it and expect it to never break if you don't grease it. We have 2 heidi sm74's on the floor. a 2/3 perfector and a 4/4 perfector. we have 170mil impressions on our 8color and around 155-160mil impression we replaced the pincer bar not because we had to but because it was worn and we wanted to before it was shot. That being said we have a very strick maintenace program that is done every week and we have very little mechanical downtime due to breakage and failures since we initiated the program. I would strongly recomend the heidelberg.

 

[The Heidelberg Guy]

i think you have to answer a few questions first. maintenance on any piece of equipment is KEY. you can't run the the snot out of it and expect it to never break if you don't grease it. We have 2 heidi sm74's on the floor. a 2/3 perfector and a 4/4 perfector. we have 170mil impressions on our 8color and around 155-160mil impression we replaced the pincer bar not because we had to but because it was worn and we wanted to before it was shot. That being said we have a very strick maintenace program that is done every week and we have very little mechanical downtime due to breakage and failures since we initiated the program. I would strongly recomend the heidelberg.

+1 for the Heidelberg

 

[Laxmi Kant Kuthiala]

Heartening to see that if properly maintained the pincer gripper bar and segment gears can last 150 - 160 mil impressions. I am an ardent heidelberg fan myself. I have 6 Heidelbergs on my shop floor but no perfectors. Do all Heidelbergs have the same perfection technology or has it evolved over the years? Is their a year to Heidelbergs like "buy a Heidelberg perfector after 19_ _"?

 

[The Heidelberg Guy]

Heartening to see that if properly maintained the pincer gripper bar and segment gears can last 150 - 160 mil impressions. I am an ardent heidelberg fan myself. I have 6 Heidelbergs on my shop floor but no perfectors. Do all Heidelbergs have the same perfection technology or has it evolved over the years? Is their a year to Heidelbergs like "buy a Heidelberg perfector after 19_ _"?

Yes, it has evolved quite a bit. Some machines have a semi-automatic perfecting device, others have a fully automatic perfecting devices.

 

[NGA]

yes some are fully automatic and others are semi. we have one of each. the fully automatic you can switch over from a push of a botton. the semi you have to manual crank the press. I personally perfer the semi which is on my 98 5color vs my 02 8c. the semi is more user friendly IMO if you have any mechanical problems, that usually a tech can talk you through fixing any problems over the phone, vs in most cases i've had to call a tech in to service the fully automated model. 98 to 02 it looks like they have made very little if any change to the pincer bar itself.

 

[Mike Herndon]

We have 2 sm102 6 color perfectors. One is a 98 with the older style perfector, one is a 06 with the newer "eccentric" perfector. Both are semi auto which I prefer. You can trouble shoot them easily over the phone if needed and we've always been able to get the press back into straight mode if we have a problem. The eccentric perfector on our newer machine is big improvement over the older design IMO. But you will need to buy a newer machine to get one. Maintenance wise you do need to stay on top of them. We run 7 days a week and clean/grease the perfectors every Monday. Our older press has 260million impression on the original pincer bar. It does need a rebuild, there's movement in the fixed gripper. However we can still run perfecting just slower, usually 9-10 is all we can get due to registration movement. Our newer press has 150 million with no movement, I just ran a job 8pt C2S stock 4cp over 2 color pms with lots of coverage at 12.5iph with no real issues.(Had to prove to the pressman it can be done). Maintain the pincer bar, keep them clean,and don't let the blanket wash/fountain trays over flow onto them and they will last a long time.

Mike

 

[vik la luna]

millers make the best manual perfector
man rolands make the best automated ones

 

[Janani]

Perfecting size

Perfecting size

Hi,
Can someone tell me why do convertible perfecting presses require a different sheet size (the minimum sheet size in perfecting mode is greater than straight printing mode) when in perfecting mode?

Thanks,
Janani.

 

[bspillai78]

+1 for the Heidelberg

another one

 

[Mitsuguy]

The Mitsubishi D3000R is a fine perfecting press. They are all fully automated for the change over, yet simple enough to trouble shoot over the phone. We have users with well over 200 mil impressions and the perfector device is still original. Of course as stated by others you should maintain properly any press for best results.

 

[Weaver]

we have one semi auto and one fully auto Heidelberg perfectors, trouble free and easy to use. Pincher bar as long as you do the scheduled maintenance will last a very long time. Don't let that hold you back on Heidelberg presses they are truly top of the line.

 

[vik la luna]

Hi,
Can someone tell me why do convertible perfecting presses require a different sheet size (the minimum sheet size in perfecting mode is greater than straight printing mode) when in perfecting mode?

Thanks,
Janani.

very simple
in perfecting mode you need gripper margins on either end of the sheet
iin straight printing you can almost have you image run off the tail edge of the sheet
in perfecting you must allow for the grippere when you convert the sheet

 

[JOHNYPRINT]

I am looking to convert my single colour machines to double colour perfectors. We have a fair volume of such jobs. Which is the best used machine that I should buy to do such jobs? The format has to be B1. I am a little wary of Heidelbergs because of the pincer grippers and their maintainence. How good is the Komori 240P? What about the KBAs the Rollands or the Manns? Are there any good or bad year cutoffs for these machines (the year that there was a significant modification to their perfecting mechanism)? I was told that the Millers had the best perfection but the machines without oil bath seem bad buys, also the speed of the Millers (max 10000 but most seem to run at only 5000 to 6000) is slow. Please advice.

Hi laxmi
I have operated hiedelberg old to new ones , KBA rapida 1997and roland 700 1997 approx perfectors.The most reliable is the hiedelberg, the KBA is is not bad but we have a few problems during sheet size change over, it uses hydraulic oil to change size,problems with leaks, we wasted more oil than BP, also the electrics were taken from the chernobyl nuke power plant, very temperamental. dont touch rolands i am working one at the moment, constant electrical problems and pneumatic probs added to that i think i am right in saying they probably have the most expensive parts. go with hiedelberg there is always a local engineer.
regards john h

 

[Jmichaels]

Hi,
Can someone tell me why do convertible perfecting presses require a different sheet size (the minimum sheet size in perfecting mode is greater than straight printing mode) when in perfecting mode?

Thanks,
Janani.

Probably because there is a limit to the position of the adjustable gripper opening cam.