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Which type of offset press can print the highest resolution

I

ILPrint

Registered Users
I do digital printing but have an opportunity to get high quality/detail black and white print work. What kinds of presses make the most detailed prints? Can a small replicator do the same as a larger B3 or B2 sized offset press? I know that the new DI presses advertise up to 300lpi, what resolution can the older or simpler machines produce. I am very new to offset as you can see, but just wondering how do you compare one machine against another when speed or color printing is not an issue, and you just want the most crisp/sharp image possible. Thank you. Robert
 
ILPrint said:
I do digital printing but have an opportunity to get high quality/detail black and white print work. What kinds of presses make the most detailed prints? Can a small replicator do the same as a larger B3 or B2 sized offset press? I know that the new DI presses advertise up to 300lpi, what resolution can the older or simpler machines produce. I am very new to offset as you can see, but just wondering how do you compare one machine against another when speed or color printing is not an issue, and you just want the most crisp/sharp image possible. Thank you. Robert
Click to expand...

You might want to get a better understanding of vision and reproduction.
For example which of these two images has the most detail?

Sharpness_zps2804b8ce.jpg


Technically it's the one on the left even though the one on the right appears to have more detail. The perception of "detail" is typically related to short range contrast changes as that's how our eye/brains work to register detail (Mach Bands).

So, for black and white work the printer that can print the darkest black has (with some appropriate image processing) the potential to achieve the greatest contrast and hence the best appearance of detail. Resolving actual detail in presswork would be a function of the halftone screening used. The higher the effective lpi the finer the detail that can be resolved. So, in that context, 10 micron FM, would be best followed by 20 micron FM, then 300 lpi, 240 lpi, 175 lpi etc.
 
Thank you for your reply, that is kind of what I was trying to get at. Can a small duplicator, for example, like an A.B. Dick 9800, print a 10 micron FM as well( or at all) as an Heilderberg Quickmaster, or even a Speedmaster?
 
ILPrint said:
Thank you for your reply, that is kind of what I was trying to get at. Can a small duplicator, for example, like an A.B. Dick 9800, print a 10 micron FM as well( or at all) as an Heilderberg Quickmaster, or even a Speedmaster?
Click to expand...

I doubt that an A.B. Dick can, Speedmasters do, don't know about Quickmasters.
 
gordo said:
I doubt that an A.B. Dick can, Speedmasters do, don't know about Quickmasters.
Click to expand...

If a newspaper press can then why not an AB Dick? At least I think you have said before that it is done on newspaper presses or was that for 20 micron FM.
 
Erik Nikkanen said:
If a newspaper press can then why not an AB Dick? At least I think you have said before that it is done on newspaper presses or was that for 20 micron FM.
Click to expand...

Most newspapers (coldset) run 25 micron (30 micron midtone cluster size) or 35 micron (40 micron midtone cluster size), a few run 20 micron (24 micron midtone cluster size).
 
I just found your website Gordo, lots of very well written information. I also made a small donation, thanks!
 
Thanks alibryan, are there any inking or dampening systems that I should stay away from. Whats your opinion on the Hamada 47 series or the Ryobi 3200 series presses?
 
Thanks, I have been reading about bearers and it makes a lot of sense. They allow very precise and stable adjustments. I am looking at a Ryobi 520HX, do those models have bearers? Its really hard to find that in the specs, or do pretty much all landscape machines have them?
 
One other thing that I have not seen mentioned in this thread is the ctp system . . . you need to be sure that what you are looking at is up to the specs that you hope to obtain . . . the press is just one part of the equation . . . just because you buy a ferrari doesn't mean you are ready to win the race . . . . just my 2 cents:)
 
The Quickmaster or the Printmaster will give you a better dot then the ryobi 3302 or an AB Dick. As mentioned before it is the only one that is a Bearer duplicator. I have been able to print specta dots that go to 20 micron but in order to do it a lot depends on the condition of the press the rollers and the type of ink and the color of the ink.
 
Thanks everyone, I think that I will start looking for one of the larger presses. The Ryobi 3302 looks like a great press but I always wondered why there is such a large price difference between it and the next step up. I'll rather look for an older well maintained landscape press.
 
I agree with Alibryan to some extent. Presses with bearers generally are known for better quality in that the cylinders don't have the force exerted on them with coming out of the cylinder gap, where with duplicator type presses you don't have that and can get a bouncing effect around the circumference which usually shows up on the blanket as dark bands that run the entire width of the blanket (however, these bands can be caused by other things for example an ink ductor roller ducting at the wrong time). If a duplicator press without bearers is in good condition and plate and blankets are within manufacturer specs and packed and adjusted correctly you can get very good quality from them. I run 175 line AM screens all the time with very good results. What it boils down to is how well the press can print or reproduce a dot. Duplicator presses and even bearer presses can print dots that are elongated or a long list of other distortions that can affect the quality of the finished product if the presses are not set up or maintained correctly. This also includes profiling the press for dot gain. It is common to profile large presses, not so common for most duplicator type presses but when you do profile one (correctly for dot gain and gray balance) it can greatly improve the quality of the finished product.
 
I agree with alibryan. Bearer to bearer will give the best quality. As to which machine is best? Ask 100 printers and get 100 opinions. Also, a good pressman is worth his salary.

tomtech
 
You need to buy a decent press like a Heidelberg or Komori etc. If you buy a junky Ryobi you will print junk.
 
A good pressman with a press in good condition doesn't print junk regardless of the brand if he stays within the capabilities of the press. Just don't expect a small offset duplicator to perform as well as a larger press with bearers.
You wouldn't expect a small pickup truck to carry the load of a large dump truck; it is the same with presses.

tomtech
 
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