Workflow vs Kodak

[Mark]

We have Brisque (yes still) and have looked at Kodak Prinergy, Agfa and Heidelberg pdf workflows.
How Does Fuji's offering compare?
Any old Brisque users who are using it, what do you think?

Thanks

 

[DCurry]

I upgraded from Brisque to Prinergy and loved, loved, loved it. I have since changed jobs to an Apogee shop and in my experience Prinergy is far better (easier and more flexible).

Interestingly, the guy who replaced me at the Prinergy shop came from an Apogee background and he prefers Apogee.

 

[michaelejahn]

We sell Compose EWF for about 1/10th the price

 

[flamRon]

I started out using brisque for a couple years before we switched to Prinergy.

Our prepress dept has gone from eight full time people to three now (and I handle 90% of the jobs). Prinergy allows us to do that because it rips with speed, accuracy, and is very reliable.

 

[Joe Duffy]

There needs to be a lot more information given to truely answer this question.

Type of work you do, volume, number of operators, skill levels of operators, future growth planned for company, digital proofing, what features can you not live without, do you want to stay in a CT/LW type workflow, will the old Scitex files need to be able to be run through the new system, etc all need to be taken into account.

As stated by Michael, there are also several very good to great third party solutions - Esko, Rampage, etc that may be a better choice.

Look carefully, talk to shops running them all and go to them if you can. Then make a informed choice.

 

[Paint]

Hands down Prinergy...

I would put my system up against any system out there,
and with no doubt in my mind Prinergy would come out on top...

Remember you get what you pay for...

 

[pmhapp]

wow, there might be a lot of love for the current King of Workflows > Prinergy, but make sure you do your homework on the company behind what you buy. Is Kodak going to be around 5 years from now?

Your original question asked about Fuji's workflow.
I've heard a lot of good things from Rampage users. Check it out.

 

[Mark]

Was curious about Fuji Workflow.
Want info on that since boss is looking at it (not sure why).
I have no confidence in Fuji from older stuff i've seen and was looking for feedback on Fuji to see what the current opinion is.

I've compared Prinergy, Apogee and Prinect and felt they were all pretty similar.

 

[Mike Bishop]

Fuji sells Rampage

Fuji sells Rampage

I deal with Fuji at my current job of 8 years and I dealt with them at my previous job. All in all I have used Fuji installed Rampage for 11 or 12 years and it is great. Rampage is not a Fuji product, it is made and supported by Rampage Systems but it is distributed and installed by Fuji. The support for this product is possibly the best support I have ever gotten for any product. You can call Rampage, which is in Massachusetts, and talk to an actual knowledgeable, English speaking tech who will solve your problem. This is a major plus when switching over to a new workflow.

Definitely give Rampage a good look.

Home Page

 

[Laurens]

Interesting discussion, it inspired me to put up a poll about people's preferred prepress workflow on my site. So far Kodak Prinergy seems to be the most popular choice, followed by the Agfa, Esko & Heidelberg offerings.
I don't think popularity should be an important consideration in choosing a particular system. Telling us what kind of stuff you print however, that makes sense in asking for advice about a workflow.

 

[2ndShiftProblemSolver]

Personally, I've worked extensively with several iterations of SCITEX, ORIS, DALiM, Rampage, Apogee (agfa), NEXUS (artwork systems - now Esko), Automation Engine (formerly backstage esko - now esko artwork). I have also played with prinergy and rampage.

To say one is better than another is very much a Ford v.s. Chevy debate.

It all depends on the type of work you do, how you want to handle files before the workflow, how you plan to utilize them after the workflow, how much you want to interact with your workflow.

In my experience, for bookwork, apogee is great, prinergy is good and if you are imposing using preps up front, Nexus is a good choice as well and at a better price point than the other two. For general commercial work, apogee will work but its not the best solution. Prinergy is good and Nexus is good as well. EskoArtwork seems to be phasing Nexus out and moving users to Automation Engine which adds a whole new layer of functionality to the already robust Nexus. If you are doing packaging work, don't even look at apogee or prinergy. Go straight to Esko and look at all of the options built into automation engine. They have been incorporating the art pro functionality from Nexus into the new workflow and the interface is much more user friendly and robust than Nexus was. On top of their great rip, Esko offers several illustrator plugins for trapping, preflight, imposition, etc. They have some cool editor too. Art pro and Neo are my favorites.

 

[Mark]

ok, still want to know about any Fuji Workflow users and their opinions on it.

thanks.

 

[Joe Duffy]

When you say Fuji workflow - do you mean XMF?
As stated, Rampage is a third party workflow and not owned by Fuji.

 

[Mark]

Yes, sorry, looking for info and opinions of Fuji XMF.

 

[Hamid R. Soleimani]

If you are doing packaging work, don't even look at apogee or prinergy. Go straight to Esko and look at all of the options built into automation engine.

Esko is not only good for packaging industry, but also for all of the fields of printing such as commercial , newsprint, etc.

Full of modules and very powerful in controlling and editing.

Anybody has doubt or thinks that others like Prinergy or Apogee do better, I am here to talk about technical points.

Cheers,
Hamid

 

[ROCPrinter]

Personally, I've worked extensively with several iterations of SCITEX, ORIS, DALiM, Rampage, Apogee (agfa), NEXUS (artwork systems - now Esko), Automation Engine (formerly backstage esko - now esko artwork). I have also played with prinergy and rampage.

To say one is better than another is very much a Ford v.s. Chevy debate.

It all depends on the type of work you do, how you want to handle files before the workflow, how you plan to utilize them after the workflow, how much you want to interact with your workflow.

In my experience, for bookwork, apogee is great, prinergy is good and if you are imposing using preps up front, Nexus is a good choice as well and at a better price point than the other two. For general commercial work, apogee will work but its not the best solution. Prinergy is good and Nexus is good as well. EskoArtwork seems to be phasing Nexus out and moving users to Automation Engine which adds a whole new layer of functionality to the already robust Nexus. If you are doing packaging work, don't even look at apogee or prinergy. Go straight to Esko and look at all of the options built into automation engine. They have been incorporating the art pro functionality from Nexus into the new workflow and the interface is much more user friendly and robust than Nexus was. On top of their great rip, Esko offers several illustrator plugins for trapping, preflight, imposition, etc. They have some cool editor too. Art pro and Neo are my favorites.

We are a commercial printer with 6C-40" and 4C-20" offset presses along with wide-format and two HP Indigo's. We have been using Nexus for years and love it! We had Brisque's too (I actually still have them on a skid on my dock). Esko is a great company to work with...

 

[earl]

We are using Sierra from Xitron (same as Fuji XMF) and love it. In my view, we all defend what we've spent so much time learning, and money acquiring. Of course the Kodak lovers will defend Prinergy. We have Kodak Insite Creative for online proofing/collaboration. We have found Kodak to be difficult to deal with for support and extremely expensive. How much are your annual support contracts? Sierra/XMF uses Adobe PDF Print Engine, just like Apogee and Prinergy. There are legitimate reasons to go either direction, most notably might be a "lights out" approach to prepress, but that begins a whole new discussion.

 

[michaelejahn]

it might be due to a multi-year consumables deal

it might be due to a multi-year consumables deal

Was curious about Fuji Workflow.
Want info on that since boss is looking at it (not sure why).

When I worked for AGFA, we would give the software away if our sales person could close a multiple year contact where the prospect made a commitment to buy specific amount of plates each year for several years.

If the volume was enough, it was no issue giving the prospect the wokflow software.

That might be why your decision maker is asking you to have a look.

You are correct - all worklfows tend to be based on the original Aldus OPEN model.

What I would care about is access to XML metadata - and API support. JDF seems dead as Dillinger, but if you can get them to provide Web2Print and storefront technology - you will be fine.

Hope that helps.

 

[frailer]

Yes, sorry, looking for info and opinions of Fuji XMF.

XMF user here, in Australia. Pretty happy, especially with the integrated imposition. Improvements/upgrades happen reasonably well. We pay about $k5/year for maintenance contract which includes all upgrades/bug fixes/support. You would need to check that out where you are; may vary.

All I know is PREPS and Dynastrip are a mere memory for us. We're medium-sized sheetfed shop.
The earlier comment is relevant. we all defend what we've invested time/angst into learning, so all comments should be filtered through that lens.

Fairly active threads to trawl here:

Fujifilm XMF

Good luck in your decision.

 

[hansman]

We sell Compose EWF for about 1/10th the price

That is like comparing a world war 2 era jet to an f-18!
Seriously having used both systems, Prynergy wins hands down in all workflows head to head hands down. I had used Brisque a while ago would never even think to compare the 2. Prinergy is a complete workflow and also is expandable.
There is simply nothing out there that comes close.