Xerox 3100 vs Ricoh 9200

[Graeme NZ]

Hi all, I've had a look around the forums trying to compare Xerox 3100 vs Ricoh 9200.

We're a mailhouse with a fairly dynamic output, we clear anywhere between 20k impressions on a slow day to well over 150k A4 impressions daily. We're looking at switching out 14x KM c1100s and a few ageing KM 1200s, and we're considering a Xerox of Ricoh solution. Canon products aren't an option where we're based.

The Versant 3100 and 9200 are machines I see thrown about here in the forums, but the focus is more within a commercial print scope instead of a 100% variable data level, where there is a little more allowance on the variability of output quality between mail items. It's a super high-level discussion as there is no rush and we are mainly doing some tyre-kicking at this point.

Cost isn't a factor at this stage, I'm more interested in

• reliability
• ease-of-use (there's a wide range of operator experience)
• maintenance requirements (self maintenance vs technician)
• colour stability across machines
• speed
• capacity to run envelopes (DLE/Maxpop/C4, tropical seal/self seal/peel & seal, glassine/window/no window)
• Inline finishing options aren't really much of a consideration, but if one really stands head and shoulders above the other then it would be good to know

Most of the stock we run isn't that heavy, between 80/100gsm and 300gsm.

Any thoughts out there?

 

[azehnali]

so you are running a million impressions or more a month?

 

[msaeger]

Hi all, I've had a look around the forums trying to compare Xerox 3100 vs Ricoh 9200.

We're a mailhouse with a fairly dynamic output, we clear anywhere between 20k impressions on a slow day to well over 150k A4 impressions daily. We're looking at switching out 14x KM c1100s and a few ageing KM 1200s, and we're considering a Xerox of Ricoh solution. Canon products aren't an option where we're based.

The Versant 3100 and 9200 are machines I see thrown about here in the forums, but the focus is more within a commercial print scope instead of a 100% variable data level, where there is a little more allowance on the variability of output quality between mail items. It's a super high-level discussion as there is no rush and we are mainly doing some tyre-kicking at this point.

Cost isn't a factor at this stage, I'm more interested in

• reliability
• ease-of-use (there's a wide range of operator experience)
• maintenance requirements (self maintenance vs technician)
• colour stability across machines
• speed
• capacity to run envelopes (DLE/Maxpop/C4, tropical seal/self seal/peel & seal, glassine/window/no window)
• Inline finishing options aren't really much of a consideration, but if one really stands head and shoulders above the other then it would be good to know

Most of the stock we run isn't that heavy, between 80/100gsm and 300gsm.

Any thoughts out there?

20k a day is well over what they are saying the 3100 would be good for. I would say the xerox 1000 / Iridesse would be more comparable to the 9200. Unless you are considering multiple smaller machines vs one bigger one?

 

[Graeme NZ]

Yes over a million impressions a month, spread across multiple machines. We currently have twelve or fourteeen (I can't remember the overall totals, we've got six in my plant) KM C1100 printers across two plants. 20k per day is the total output from one of our plants, but it is spread over multiple machines.

 

[Graeme NZ]

In case there is any confusion I should qualify that by "impression" I mean 1x A4 click.
ie. 1x single sided A4 sheet= 1 click/impression, 1 double sided SRA3 sheet = 4x clicks/impressions

 

[Graeme NZ]

20k a day is well over what they are saying the 3100 would be good for. I would say the xerox 1000 / Iridesse would be more comparable to the 9200. Unless you are considering multiple smaller machines vs one bigger one?

Sorry I'll reply directly, we are definitely looking at multiple "smaller" machines instead of one or two super machines. We have several runs going at any time and like the redundancy with having multiple machines. It allows us to respond dynamically to concentrate our firepower at more urgent/larger jobs or spread the load, depending on what we've got on for the day...

 

[SoggyWinter]

A good comparison would be the Ricoh 9200, Xerox Color 1000, Xerox Irridesse, KM 14000, and Xerox Baltoro for cutsheet capability. I think the Ricoh 9200 does envelopes, but I'm not sure about the rest of the list. The Versant 3100 envelope handling is ok, but needs a lot of babysitting for clearing jams. You might look into a dedicated high volume envelope machine like these guys sell: mcspro.com

 

[PricelineNegotiator]

You could do a blend of devices if you were up to it. A few 3100's and the rest as Iridesses would net you the best ability to run variable data jobs, with high quality and sheets per hour. The Iridesse is going to handle VDP very well, and the 3100's can do envelopes and VDP pretty well. Xerox is known to have good in-line finishing equipment as of late. We're a Xerox house currently and really appreciate the ease of use for their equipment.

 

[jwheeler]

Hi all, I've had a look around the forums trying to compare Xerox 3100 vs Ricoh 9200.

You're not really comparing apples to apples with these two models based on speed and duty cycles.

The Ricoh C7210 is the model that most closely compares the the Xerox 3100 and KM C1100 (now KM C6100). The Ricoh 9200 is more on par with Xerox's Iridesse or KM's C12000/14000 series. As for reliability, this question is often asked in the forums and most people only have current experience with their own brand, so they can't truly speak to how reliable the latest model is of another manufacturer. These days, I think all of them are pretty solid based on talking to other shops in the area.

They all offer some form of operator replaceable unit/maintenance program if you ask for it. Service response is going to depend on your location - how close are you to the home office and parts warehouse is big factor.

Since you mentioned VDP printing, then RIP'ing power must be a consideration as well. All 3 brands offer the Fiery controllers, and usually offer 2 options: fast and faster. Make sure you're getting quotes on equivalent RIP's when getting bids. All 3 can also run envelopes.

You mentioned color stability across the machines. This is always a challenge for any brand. On the newer version of the KM's (C6100) they now have the IQ-501 which offers an in-line spectrophotometer and high speed cameras to constantly monitor color and alignment on every sheet. Xerox has something similar to this - I'm not sure if Ricoh does. If color is really critical, then I'd suggest getting Fiery's Color Profiler Suite along with your RIP's.

All of the brands offer similar in-line finishing. If you need something specific, it's best to check the specs on each vendors version of the finisher.

And lastly, you mentioned up to 300gsm...all of the models mentioned support at least 350gsm, simplex or duplex, some do up to 400gsm.

 

[Shawnd]

I am surprised inkjet is not in the mix, are you running a lot of glossy stocks?

 

[Graeme NZ]

I am surprised inkjet is not in the mix, are you running a lot of glossy stocks?

No, almost entirely uncoated stock. As far I can tell we've avoided inkjet for quality reasons - the sample output I've seen looks pretty awful. Also we like having multiple smaller machines to spread the load/redundancy. My understanding of inkjet is that it's good for a handful of very high volume runs but if you're running a large number of medium volume runs concurrently it's probably not a great option.

You're not really comparing apples to apples with these two models based on speed and duty cycles.

The Ricoh C7210 is the model that most closely compares the the Xerox 3100 and KM C1100 (now KM C6100). The Ricoh 9200 is more on par with Xerox's Iridesse or KM's C12000/14000 series. As for reliability, this question is often asked in the forums and most people only have current experience with their own brand, so they can't truly speak to how reliable the latest model is of another manufacturer. These days, I think all of them are pretty solid based on talking to other shops in the area.

They all offer some form of operator replaceable unit/maintenance program if you ask for it. Service response is going to depend on your location - how close are you to the home office and parts warehouse is big factor.

Since you mentioned VDP printing, then RIP'ing power must be a consideration as well. All 3 brands offer the Fiery controllers, and usually offer 2 options: fast and faster. Make sure you're getting quotes on equivalent RIP's when getting bids. All 3 can also run envelopes.

You mentioned color stability across the machines. This is always a challenge for any brand. On the newer version of the KM's (C6100) they now have the IQ-501 which offers an in-line spectrophotometer and high speed cameras to constantly monitor color and alignment on every sheet. Xerox has something similar to this - I'm not sure if Ricoh does. If color is really critical, then I'd suggest getting Fiery's Color Profiler Suite along with your RIP's.

All of the brands offer similar in-line finishing. If you need something specific, it's best to check the specs on each vendors version of the finisher.

And lastly, you mentioned up to 300gsm...all of the models mentioned support at least 350gsm, simplex or duplex, some do up to 400gsm.

That's great information, thanks!

 

[PricelineNegotiator]

No, almost entirely uncoated stock. As far I can tell we've avoided inkjet for quality reasons - the sample output I've seen looks pretty awful. Also we like having multiple smaller machines to spread the load/redundancy. My understanding of inkjet is that it's good for a handful of very high volume runs but if you're running a large number of medium volume runs concurrently it's probably not a great option.



That's great information, thanks!

Honestly you might want to check out the Fuji J Press 720. The quality is substantially higher than anything toner or inkjet from Xerox. Have them send you some samples.

 

[msaeger]

Sorry I'll reply directly, we are definitely looking at multiple "smaller" machines instead of one or two super machines. We have several runs going at any time and like the redundancy with having multiple machines. It allows us to respond dynamically to concentrate our firepower at more urgent/larger jobs or spread the load, depending on what we've got on for the day...

Yeah I would agree more small machines is a good idea. If you want Ricoh you probably should look at a 7200 or 5300. They will tell you that 9200 can do the million a month and it could for what you are talking about but then you would only have one machine. Probably better to get 3 smaller ones.

 

[SoggyWinter]

The bigger machines may have a lower click cost because their expected volume is higher. Best to quote multiple machines and multiple vendors.

Yeah I would agree more small machines is a good idea. If you want Ricoh you probably should look at a 7200 or 5300. They will tell you that 9200 can do the million a month and it could for what you are talking about but then you would only have one machine. Probably better to get 3 smaller ones.

 

[Some Guy]

Color consistently is okay on the versants if you use one spectrometer between the machines.

We have an a account that does about a two thousand a day and we see them about every other month.

We have an account that runs them about 16hours straight a day and we are there daily just waiting to adjust this or that or fix something.

Don't buy a versant with the hopes of filling the tray with envelopes and walking away.

Uncoated runs fine but coated has issues with the 2nd

 

[msaeger]

The bigger machines may have a lower click cost because their expected volume is higher. Best to quote multiple machines and multiple vendors.

Not necessarily at least here anyway but yeah get as many prices as possible.

 

[Shawnd]

I would check out the MCS Merlin K146c, inkjet has come a long way, you have the right volume for this box.

Merlin K146c - MCS Pro

Low capital cost No clicks Industry leading shared maintenance Ease of use

mcspro.com

 

[PricelineNegotiator]

Color consistently is okay on the versants if you use one spectrometer between the machines.

We have an a account that does about a two thousand a day and we see them about every other month.

We have an account that runs them about 16hours straight a day and we are there daily just waiting to adjust this or that or fix something.

Don't buy a versant with the hopes of filling the tray with envelopes and walking away.

Uncoated runs fine but coated has issues with the 2nd

Xerox sells a very high end envelope feeding system for the Versant line. If you have 10+ Versants you can easily justify the expense of a single machine that has a dedicated envelope feeder. I saw it in Chicago last year, it was very impressive. I know Brian Segnit has an account on this forum. Is there any way to mention him to get his attention?

 

[rcreveli]

Xerox sells a very high end envelope feeding system for the Versant line. If you have 10+ Versants you can easily justify the expense of a single machine that has a dedicated envelope feeder. I saw it in Chicago last year, it was very impressive. I know Brian Segnit has an account on this forum. Is there any way to mention him to get his attention?

Is that a envelope feeder from a T-head press?

 

[Shawnd]

Interesting, wonder if they do custom click charges with that as well for envelope sizes?