Xerox 700 - Printing 280gsm Stock on the 170gsm Paper Tray Setting

[sidneykidney]

I'm printing a 24pp A4 book and noticed a huge different in colour when printing the cover (Xerox 280gsm Matt) and the inner pages (Xerox 170gsm Matt). These is a light blue bar which runs across the double page spread and it looks much darker on the heavier stock.

If I run the 280gsm Board on the 170gsm setting it match the inner pages, but...will this affect the toner fusing to the board. I have an image of a lady on the front cover in which she has dark hair (lots of toner). When I ran a few sheets of 280gsm on the 170gsm paper tray setting, it looked okay, but is it safe...what will happen in a few weeks, will the image come start or blistering?????

 

[che.c]

These machines change a lot of things depending on the stock you select - fuser temp, transfer settings etc. However if it is a good match using the 170gsm settings I'm guessing it's the output profile that's making the biggest difference.

Set up the cover to run with the correct weight etc, then go into Expert Colour Settings and choose the same output profile as yer 170gsm stock is using, and that should be a bit closer.

Are you using the supplied profiles or have you made your own?

 

[sidneykidney]

What I am doing is loading 280gsm Xerox Matt opening the paper tray, choosing 257-300gsm Coated setting, closing the tray and printing 10 copies, then I open the tray and close it again (still with 280gsm Xerox Matt loaded, when prompted, I choose 151-176gsm Coated and printed exactly the same file again. The 257-300gsm Setting is much darker than the 151-176gsm setting. My profile is set to 'None' which is what I use for most of my jobs. I also calibrate before every job I print and have used the same calibration setting for Covers and Inners.

Even though the temperature is going to be lower, is it safe for me to print 250 copies of a 24 page document or do you think its risky. I realise it depends on coverage but wasn't sure what can happen to the image.

 

[che.c]

If I'm ever running a job at lower temp and am worried about fusing I give any solids a good scratch with my thumbnail (don't test the first sheet out though, try the fifth) and if it ain't flaking off then I go with it. Hasn't let me down so far.

I would be inclined to try and run the paper with the correct settings though, and get the colour right through the RIP. None profile isn't an option for output profiles - just for simulation (see screenshot).

 

[Milo Wilson]

I would NOT run the 280 gsm as a 170gsm weight. Your looking at possible major problems down the line. The fuser temp and 2nd BTR transfer voltage are the 2 major things that are different using different stock weight. Use the profile you're using for the 170 gsm on the 280gsm. If that doesn't do it adjust the calibration curves manually on the profile to get it as close as possible or you can recalibrate and start from the beginning.

 

[che.c]

While I wouldn't make a habit of running a printer like this, if he's unfamiliar with the colour controls and the deadline is tight, as long as the toner is fusing on ok it won't cause any harm.

Running the machine this way, all day, every day would probably cause a fair few problems. Once in a while is fine though - as long as yer getting good bond between toner and paper.

There's umpteen ways of getting that colour without using the wrong paper settings, but he may not have the time/experience to do any of them.

 

[sidneykidney]

Thanks for all your replies, I have carefully read each one of them. I've been used Xerox presses for about 8 years now and have quite a lot of experience in colour correcting, but it's always good to find out how others are doing it as well, and so, would never say that my way is the correct way!!!
As mentioned by 'che.c', Yes I am on a very tight deadline, and because of the subtle pastel colours on the subject, I have created a gradient curve to adjust my CMYK, but its very time consuming. In the end, I ran on the 170gsm setting and did the 'scratch test'...and this IS only a 1-off as well.

Color - Color flow - CMYK Source Profile - None

In which option will I find the 'advanced edit' feature. I'm running a Creo RIP and waiting for Xerox to install my Advanced Colour Tools Package.

 

[X33]

I also calibrate before every job I print and have used the same calibration setting for Covers and Inners.

I think your problem is here. You should create calibration tables for each paper you use independently. Do not use the same calibration for different types of paper.

 

[sidneykidney]

Thank X33, I will give that a go and see what happens. I've never had this problem before. I went through some file copies of previous work and found that when using the same calibration for covers & inner (280gsm/170gsm), they were very close in colour, so I don't know if it's only this particular job/material/colour setting.

 

[che.c]

I ran my printers without the aid of a spectrophotometer (or any accurate measuring device) for a couple of years. These days I've got better equipment and software, so my stocks are all profiled.
However I do not find that the value of calibrating on every weight of every stock for every job outweighs the amount of time that takes.

I calibrate on 300 gsm stock, once on coated (which applies to all weights) and once on uncoated (which again, applies to all uncoated weights) - I find very few problems related to calibration using this technique.


However, back when I was using colorcal strips and the Fiery supplied profiles I found that in a situation with a cover needing to match a book, it was nearly always better to use the same paper profile for the text and the cover, tended to be a lot closer and need less tweaking to get bang on.

SidneyKidney - is it a spot colour you're trying to match? The RIP may be looking up different tables for each paper weight which would explain a big colour shift. There's a whole lot of possible reasons for the colour being different on the two stocks.

I'm not familiar with Creo so unfortunately can't help you in the intricacies of the RIP, but just have a read through any literature you can find and play around with the settings to see what they do.