Xerox To KM comparison

[meir]

customer doing about 350,000 B"W per month

Xerox 4112/4127 V
KM 1051/1200 PRO

Main question is durabillity

Thanks for your time

 

[Craig]

One thing I can tell you is there are FAR more options on the KM 1200 than the Xerox. I am about ready to sign the papers on a KM 1200 here to replace a tired and worn out Ricoh.

On the durability issue, the 1200 is KM's production monochrome, it seems to be a pretty robust machine from what I saw at a demo and I talked to production USERS who have millions on the machine without major issues. One place has 3 that run 24/7 and are very happy.

The 4112/127 is an OK machine but the configurations were a little clunky for me. Paper feed, was one that turned me off. Your only option for multiple drawers will only feed 8.5 x 11. This is NOT Xerox production monochrome. For that you need to look at the Nuvera line.

 

[arossetti]

41XX is not a production machine. We have 2 and see more problems then we would like compared to our Nuvera. Its a good machine for what it is built for (large office product/in-house) but not what it is sold for (1mil a month production).

It does fine work but the life of the developer can not keep up with a production enviroment.

As for the KM I'm not sure, we have a 950 that runs well but we do not run it like we do our production equipment.

 

[halmac]

350,000 is a lot per month. We have an Océ 4120 and it's beautiful. It's big, but its beautiful. Every drawer can be an insert drawer. Can't beat cost per copy. I tried some coated stock (Opus Gloss) and it didn't work so well. The printing was fine but the sheet went a little wavy. If you can afford it get the 6250 or the 6320 ultra. It prints two sides at the same time. Now I'm drooling.
Océ VarioPrint 6320 Ultra for ultra high speed duplex printing

 

[cpete]

I am not sure with the xerox but the 1200 will have no problems doing 350k a month. The 1200 runs clean and we are very happy with halftones as well as solids.

 

[CathieH]

KM1050 B/W usage

KM1050 B/W usage

I started with a company four months ago that had two machines - one color KM500 and one black workhorse, KM1050. They had decided before they hired me that they were going to replace the KM500 with a newer and better machine.

I thought that was great, but they wanted to keep the KM500 as backup and get rid of the 1050. I told them three times I thought it was a bad idea as we were running so much b/w books on the 1050 that we would kill our new machine before we even got our money's worth.

Finally, literally at the last hour, I sent an urgent message to my boss and the other decision maker asking for an emergency meeting. I'd put the numbers together and in 10 days, we had run 5000 2-sided impressions on the 1050 and 450 on the color machine. I told them it was a huge mistake to get rid of the 1050 and after looking at the numbers, they finally agreed, so I have my new KMC6501 and my KM1050 workhorse.

Moral of the story regarding your issue: the KM1050 series is a powerful workhorse and I don't think we could live without it with that much b/w only run. Yeah, like all machines it has it's jam times when we have to call the tech, but luckily we get great service (usually within 1-2 hours) and have very little downtime.

I used to be a Xerox gal, but I'm sold on my KM1050 for b/w jobs.

Good luck on your decision.
Cathie

 

[JayDA]

I am approaching twenty million clicks on two 1050s, and I can't wait until they're gone. I have two new 1200s waiting in the wings that I hope to have installed next month. I love KM, and I currently have nine of them in my shop, but calling a 1050 a "production workhorse" is a bit of a stretch. What kind of work are you doing with them? I'm doing mostly light coverage work on pre-printed shells, and after the first year they were nothing but trouble.

 

[CathieH]

I've been doing anywhere from 100 prints of 100-page 6x9 2-sided books to 150 300-page 2-sided books. I've also done some large books, small quantitity, with tabs and 3-hole punching. I use a lot of tabs in my books and that works great, albeit not having the micropress or a rip, just the driver, makes it much more difficult.

But the books I do come out great, spits them out at about 110ppm, jogs 'em, and just keeps running all day. I really do consider it a workhorse and apparently they've it around for five years or so.

 

[tppsg]

The 41xx is a perfect fit for 350k a4/ltr per month. If print volumes are going to be flat or decline, there is no need for a production machine.

 

[meir]

Great feedback everybody. This is a very helpful online community. Thanks so much

ANYONE KNOW OF A 1200PRO THAT'S BEING HEAVILY USED IN NEW YORK CITY, We would love to be able to go see a real-time user operation of this or the 1051 unit. It would really help in the decision.

BT"W 'JayDa' the coverage will probably be above average a lot of the time. Maybe the new generation models 1200/1051 is more improved over the 1050 you've experienced.

TPPSG, the experience with the Xerox 4110 has not been very good with this type of volume, unless there were some big improvements in the subsequent. Models. But you seem to agree that the 1200pro is more of a production unit.

 

[JayDA]

BT"W 'JayDa' the coverage will probably be above average a lot of the time. Maybe the new generation models 1200/1051 is more improved over the 1050 you've experienced.

Yes, I agree, the 1200 seems to be light years ahead of what I'm currently running. I have two of them sitting here, with no place to put them until I move next month....waiting sucks!

I only mention coverage, because even with the "toner recovery" systems that KM has installed, they still run very dirty. Granted, this probably wasn't the right machine for my purpose, but live and learn I suppose.

 

[KMPP]

i have experience a single run of 200,000 A4 prints with 1 unit of 1050 within 26 hours

 

[xeroid]

Xerox have forgotten more than what KM know about 'xerox' machines. Here's two reasons why to chose a 4127 over a KM1200.

Trickle dev-
KM machines use developer which has to be replaced at every PM. So you have to account for this down time at PM time. The developer must be changed as it "go's off" or loses it's ability to develop images properly. Technically speaking the developer starts to deteriorate as soon as it is installed so the chances of a print matching week to week is pretty much zero. The Xerox 4127 uses a trickle dev system where developer and toner are in the toner cartridge so the development ability is exactly the same week in week out.

Drum changes
I have seen a tech change a drum on a KM machine he had a box full of parts and it took him about an hour. It takes me (or you) about 30 seconds.

4127's are absurdly reliable.

 

[benny123]

b&w canon imagePRESS worth a look too, im biased but i think for your volume its worth looking at

 

[Toner4Brains]

Yes, I agree, the 1200 seems to be light years ahead of what I'm currently running. I have two of them sitting here, with no place to put them until I move next month....waiting sucks!

I only mention coverage, because even with the "toner recovery" systems that KM has installed, they still run very dirty. Granted, this probably wasn't the right machine for my purpose, but live and learn I suppose.

JayDA - KM did away with the toner recycle / recovery kit system in the 1200, so you shouldn't expect to see similar issues related to coverage.

 

[chrisg42]

We've had a 1051 (same engine as the 1200) for exactly a year and are pretty happy. I've just run about 70,000 clicks over the last two days and it hardly missed a beat. The suction-fed high-cap trays are recommended.

When I bought this machine there were some very tempting clearance deals about on the older 1050 model. I ran print tests on both systems and found the 1051 way ahead of the 1050, particularly on solids. As others have said, the new engine is significantly different from the old one and, in my view, was worth the extra money.

 

[meir]

We've had a 1051 (same engine as the 1200) for exactly a year and are pretty happy. I've just run about 70,000 clicks over the last two days and it hardly missed a beat. The suction-fed high-cap trays are recommended.

When I bought this machine there were some very tempting clearance deals about on the older 1050 model. I ran print tests on both systems and found the 1051 way ahead of the 1050, particularly on solids. As others have said, the new engine is significantly different from the old one and, in my view, was worth the extra money.

what are the cons if there are any?
what equipment did you use before?

 

[chrisg42]

Km 1051

Km 1051

what are the cons if there are any?
what equipment did you use before?

No real cons so far, other than wishing that we had bought options that we didn't. In particular we lack the high-capacity output stacker. As with a lot of these machines, the standard finisher is not up to receiving large volumes. Curl on the output can be a problem with some stocks, although we have made adjustments which minimise this.

Our previous machines were Canon iR105/iR8500 with Fierys. Initially we missed the Fierys and had to make changes to to our workflow, but using the integral KM RIP is second nature now.

 

[Floken]

KM 1051/1200 are realy a workhorse in the digital market. Great price, super heavy duty, Good Quality, can print on per-printed art paper. What a monster machine I never seen!!!!