Xerox versant 2100 or KM bizhub c1100 or Ricoh c901 or canon 7011vp?

[Billram570]

I do packaging samples and other high value printing with flatbed ink jets and other large format devices. I'm looking to add a digital press to my lineup so I can print some of my stuff up to 350 gsm and I'm also going to start printing about $25k per month in digital printing ( booklets, brochures, postcards and biz cards) for a friend of mine.

So I'm looking for a high quality digital press. I really don't want to spend more than $150k. ( so I'm ruling out IGen, indigo and nexpress ) The price point for those machines are too pricey as well as the clicks and service charge for the indigo are outrageous. I want the best quality print that rivals offset. So I'm hoping I can find that at my price point of $150k or less.

I've been researching:
1) Xerox Versant 2100
2) Konica Minolta Bizhub c1085 and c1100
3) Ricoh c901 Graphic Arts +
4) Canon Imagepress c7010vp

Do any of you have any experience or have any thoughts about these printers? Again I'm looking for image quality and reliability.

I will be forever grateful for any feedback you may have.

 

[printmore]

The C1085 or C1100 from Konica Minolta I would strongly consider. Feedback from commercial printers state the output is closer to offiset with less of a gloss finish. The sheets per hour are very high. The C1100 will output over 2700 sheets per hour on 12x18 100# Cover, single sided. You did not state a monthly volume, sheet count. If your printing windows are not narrow, save some money and go with a C1085. If sheets per hour is critical then invest in the C1100. Since you are in packaging the maximum sheet available would be 13x19. Review the proposed click charge versus Nup printing versus what you can charge your clients. Past experience indicates you will have a very slim margin on the packaging pieces. The unit is rated for 350gsm. Just run short grain. This unit does not slow down on heavier stocks compared to competitive units. Toner abrasion resistance is high, you will not have complaints of toner scratching off. Minimal paper curl since the unit runs at a lower temperature providing easy handling of the sheets in bindery. Reliability is very high, initial field results indicated over 40,000 sheets between failures. Color is consistent. You must have a environmentally controlled room whereby the temperature and humidity can be monitored. If you already have a bindery no need for online finishing, just go with either a stacker or FS unit. (Finisher\stapler) to collect the output. Invest your money elsewhere. A Fiery print controller with Color profiler Suite I would also recommend. I also recommend a jogger with ionized air in case static buildup occurs on high coverage sheets. This is common with all digital devices using polymer based toner.
Written by a Konica Minolta employee.

 

[Billram570]

Great feedback, thanks Printmore. Would love to hear more feedback from end users as well as from anyone that know about the other digital presses..

 

[JustinB]

My user experience is limited to the canon imagepress c7000vp but I've seen demos and talked to users on the KM, Ricoh, and Xerox equipment.

Unless things have changed, good luck UV coating the output from the KM machines. Their toner has historically had lots of wax in it, which makes it hard to coat. There also seems to be lots of threads about front to back registration on them.

Along the same lines, good luck getting the registration on the Ricoh machine to stay consistent. Read the archives of this forum, and look at all the questions about registration on the KM and Ricoh machines. Trying to cut business cards when the registration bounces around by 2mm... not fun.

I recently saw a demo of the Xerox J75 machine, and while the output was nice, the speed was slow, and I didn't like that it only had 1 fuser. That means it speeds up and slows down for different media weights. They also include settings for "productivity mode" which seems to reduce the fusing time in favor of speed. My concern is that may come back to haunt people later down the line (creasing, cutting, coating, etc.)

I've looked at all this equipment, went with the Imagepress and haven't looked back.

 

[mwheelerk]

I do packaging samples and other high value printing with flatbed ink jets and other large format devices. I'm looking to add a digital press to my lineup so I can print some of my stuff up to 350 gsm and I'm also going to start printing about $25k per month in digital printing ( booklets, brochures, postcards and biz cards) for a friend of mine.

So I'm looking for a high quality digital press. I really don't want to spend more than $150k. ( so I'm ruling out IGen, indigo and nexpress ) The price point for those machines are too pricey as well as the clicks and service charge for the indigo are outrageous. I want the best quality print that rivals offset. So I'm hoping I can find that at my price point of $150k or less.

I've been researching:
1) Xerox Versant 2100
2) Konica Minolta Bizhub c1085 and c1100
3) Ricoh c901 Graphic Arts +
4) Canon Imagepress c7010vp

Do any of you have any experience or have any thoughts about these printers? Again I'm looking for image quality and reliability.

I will be forever grateful for any feedback you may have.

I am a Ricoh Print Production Specialist who has also worked in this capacity for Canon and Xerox. The Ricoh Pro C901s+ (this unit is available in two versions the C901+/printer only and C901s+/printer/copier/scanner). These units are also sold under the Heidelberg brand as LinoPrint C901+ and C901s+. If you are a Heidelberg user you can work with your Heidelberg rep if you wish supported completely by Ricoh. One of the key strengths of the C901+ series is registration. This device uses a physical registration of the paper where the entire sheet is registered prior to the imaging area. This of course is critical when printing multiple up full bleed as so much work can be. Other devices use simple skew adjustment with variable speed feeds but without a true full sheet physical registration. For a long time other devices have been know for a slight sheen to their prints that is found appealing by some but is in my opinion not as accurate as the image offered by Ricoh and I believe this is in part why Heidelberg may have chosen to partner with Ricoh. The machine is built like a tank. If you look at the main frame specifications and compare simple weights of the machine you will see the Ricoh far exceeds the weight of some other devices. Additionally some devices require the use of a second fusing system to be able to maintain proper fusing on heavier and coated stocks. The Ricoh fusing system was designed from the ground up to be able to handle these medias consistently. Ricoh offers a TCRU (Trained Customer Replaceable Units) program that allows operators to take care of key maintenance elements without the necessity of placing a service call thereby keeping you up and productive. There are many of features and options that make this a very, very viable option for you.

 

[Puch]

We just went through a similar "research program" with Versant and the KM machines, and with some smaller Ricoh printers, trying to find the best possible color machine for our new POD service. We had the opportunity to output our real-world and synthetic test pages on both machines. What we've found is that the Ricoh prints have the most offset-like feeling of all, KM output was always effortless and first grade, while the Versant had some minor software glitches, which (I believe) will be cured by a firmware update on production-ready pieces.

The Versant and the big Ricohs are built like tanks, having oversized drums, rollers and generally they share a more spacious design concept than the KMs. This is considered good among the industry veterans, but I do remember that the japs are the masters of miniaturization, and those high-end walkmans are sounded almost like tape decks back in the 1980s.

Under the hood the machines have very similar features: the unique features to watch for is the vacuum feeding and the lower fusing temperature. In these areas the KMs excel, but I did see that registration is perfect on the Versant, too, even on heavy (300 gsm) non-digital stock. New Ricohs coming this fall will have even lower fusing temp, and the ability to adopt to very uneven creative papers.

What I did like is the Versant's screen architecture, which can be very similar to that of the offset screens (clear-centered rosettes). From a general viewing distance, an untrained observer can't distinguish the Versant's output to an offset sheet. On the other hand, KM has some proprietary screening technique (I guess), which is even better than that of Xerox's. Ricoh's hybrid and line screens are remarkable too, with a extremely high apparent resolution, which might even reveal some problems one doesn't have to face using lower screen freqs.