YUPO difficulties

[archetype]

I now work in an all coventional shop that prints on yupo synthetic stock.They had previously done short run of a couple hundred sheets and pulled them out of the delivery 50 at a time. We started doing runs of 8000-10000 heavy 4/4 and it has been a disaster. We built racks to rack them 50 at a time, thats a lot of racking. The job took about a week and a half to dry. Here are the print conditions: INX harddri ink. Anchor emerald jrz 3oz/gal with 10% ipa. spray rite 25 mic powder. IR runs pile temp at 95. It is printed on a CD102 four color. I understand smaller load sizes but 50 sheets? I feel that 300-400 would be more sensible but it sticks together like a brick. I wanted to increase the grain size of the powder to provide better air flow between sheets to speed up oxidation but I don't know if that would resolve the initial offset problem. I have printed on synthetic stock before but always with U.V./hybrid ink. Any comments or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Curious Printer]

I feel your pain, but it doesn't have to be that way. We just ran two Yupo stocks last night one text weight and one cover with conventional printing. Both jobs had heavy double hit of black over the majority of the sheet. I got in at 9AM this morning and both jobs were already being die cut.

The best help I can give you is to get your vendors together, literally in the same room at the same time tell them what you want to accomplish and make them work together to develop a solution for you. This is what we did and it has made a huge difference.

Robert

 

[Lukew]

I'm guesing yupo is just a water resistent synthetic stock yeah?
We had a test print two weeks back on a water resistent synthetic stock, that was garented to dry with just convensional ink and to not have to use oxidising ink.
We had a fairly heavy coverage of 4 colour process and when I checked it after later that day, it was completly dry, But in saying that it wasn't a long run so I'm not sure if you would still run into your initial set off problems.Must say he print looked fantastic, strong vibrant but that paper is silly expensive...

 

[Bob Peterson]

Most synthetic substrates when being printed with oxidizing inks require special attention to the papers specifications. Yupo is no exception and requires an ink that is 100% solids and designed for synthetic substrates. An ink with extra driers will not do the job. Another factor I recommend is that you start the job after cleaning the dampening system and refilling with fresh fountain solution compatible with synthetic substrates.

Follow up with your ink and etch supplier to make sure you have the correct products for the substrate. Most ink company's will pull a print on the stock and check the drying and adhesion to insure that their inks will work to avoid a claim. Also, be sure to run as little fountain solution as possible as the excessive moisture has no where to go and will slow down the oxidization process.

I have attached a Yupo print guideline, hopefully this info is helpful.

Bob

 

[CKL]

Yupo

Yupo

I have seen the ink/water balance ruin the job. We reprinted the same day, same water, ink, operator etc. But with a wash-up then fresh ink. You can get very different results. Always use yupo to m/r. Some people use paper stock to save money, it can give the operator a false balance. Every M/R pull should show slight dry-up until running ink tack is established. Toyo has a great ink called TSP. Get a test kit.

 

[archetype]

I got some info from the INX ink rep that stated that the Toyo TSP 400 was the same as the INX S/C 400 which is now called Harddri. It is their ink they recommended for plastics, foil, reflective, and so on. I have a YUPO rep coming in on monday to try to get things in line. We go to press again on tuesday. I ran across a tidbit of advice that involved "encapsulated" spray powder. Anybody know what this term means and how it affects yupo jobs?

 

[Lukew]

The stock I was refering to is
JPP Synthetic polypropylene synthetic paper
Printing Tips: Traditional offset inks may be used instead of quick drying oxidising inks. Suitable for foiling and embossing.
Why use a synthetic stock that requires such speacial attention when there's a range such as this available?

 

[archetype]

It is a G.P.O. job. That is their stock requirement.

 

[CKL]

Yupo

Yupo

I know a shop that runs INX, but still runs Toyo TSP. Call Guy Henle @ Toyo and ask him if it is the same?

 

[macphenom]

Use an oxidizing ink such as VanSons ToughTex and use alcohol in your fountain. The glycols they use in modern alcohol subs do not evaporate and since it is running on a synthetic stock it has nothing to absorb into.

 

[archetype]

We had the INX tech and the YUPO rep. in the shop late yesterday afternoon. Did some tests and burned up some free paper.(Always fun) We went with the INX Harddri Fade resistant paired with emerald jrz and 10% alcohol. Same paper, same powder, same problem. Increased the IR output to 115 degrees and no more problems. The extra heat got rid of the excess water off the sheet. I still feel there is a flaw and this is just a bandaide to the real problem.

 

[keldrewett]

Toyo TSP 400 + 15-18% IPA + low stack heat + small stacks= No problems!!

 

[earlhubbs]

Speedy Dry = No more drying issues!
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