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  • Zero VOC Inks, Going Green

    Anyone out there in Cyberspace using all vegetable oil hard dry sheet fed ink?
    I still assume the vegetable oil can't be soy based, but is linseed or tung oil based. I believe these inks are available in Germany, from Epple. Anyone using them here in the US of A?
    John Lind
    Cranberry Township, PA
    724-776-4718

  • #2
    Re: Zero VOC Inks, Going Green

    Epple and Toyo hyplus,works depending on the chemistry used(washup and fountain solution).
    It requires a fountain solution that has a glycol content of about 8% or more or it will semi-polymerize in your rollers and then chalk, pile, not transfer ect.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Zero VOC Inks, Going Green

      So Pat, are you saying that you DO use those kind of inks?
      How is a humble printer supposed to know what his glycol content is? The value of 8% sounds pretty specific. Do you have a "glycol tester"? Is that 8% glycol in the fountain solution concentrate or in the mix?
      Those symptoms of drying up on the rollers, probably happens when you leave any drying supplement in the ink, such as Speedy Dry. That's the idea, to dry hard.
      Chalking refers to the ink flaking off the paper, such as a Kromekote. Do you mean this?
      Thanks for the reply.
      John Lind
      Cranberry Township, PA
      724-776-4718

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Zero VOC Inks, Going Green

        So Pat, are you saying that you DO use those kind of inks? We have tested these types from about 15 manufacturers.


        How is a humble printer supposed to know what his glycol content is? Ask your supplier. A good indicator is the MSDS sheet. All liquid fountain solutions that have water in them contain some glycols or they could not be shipped in the winter they would freeze.
        The value of 8% sounds pretty specific. Years of observation testing and record keeping.
        Do you have a "glycol tester"? No
        Is that 8% glycol in the fountain solution concentrate or in the mix? Concentrate

        Those symptoms of drying up on the rollers, probably happens when you leave any drying supplement in the ink, such as Speedy Dry. Any ink that has any drier has this potential depending on what is in the fountain chemistry.

        That's the idea, to dry hard.
        Chalking refers to the ink flaking off the paper, such as a Kromekote. Do you mean this? I mean chalking as an ink that has transferred some pigment and there is not enough varnish and resin to bond it to the sheet.

        Pat

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Zero VOC Inks, Going Green

          Ask your fountain solution supplier for total glycol content.

          Many alcohol subs have a high glycol content some are 100% glycol.

          There are many kinds, some are food grade and non hazardious, most glycols used in the industry are not food grade.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Zero VOC Inks, Going Green

            The vegetable oil is important but not the only factor. Obviously, you already know that Tung oil will react to driers faster than linseed which is faster than soy bean oil. However, an even greater contributor to the hardness of dry is the resin system used. The resin system is the back bone of any ink vehicle and thus ink. Harder resins (ie those with higher melting points) will give inks which dry harder. On the opposite end softer resins will yield softer drying inks.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Zero VOC Inks, Going Green

              John,

              We us an ink that is 71% vegatable based. We have worked with our ink manufacturer to help design an ink that we use on every paper substraight. One ink for all applications. No need for 5 or 6 different kinds of ink depending on stock. It dries great. It has almost zero VOC's. We are a highend commercial printer and we use it on everything we print.

              Robert

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Zero VOC Inks, Going Green

                Thanks Robert. I think that's the way to go for us too. We are looking at a Toyo and Flint product right now.
                John Lind
                Cranberry Township, PA
                724-776-4718

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Zero VOC Inks, Going Green

                  Hi Robert

                  Is there any special fountain solution or washup that you use for the ink to work correctly?


                  Thank you

                  Pat Berger

                  Mercer Color

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Zero VOC Inks, Going Green

                    We use a low VOC fountain solution and solvent. Unlike most fountain solution ours does not tear the ink appart. It does not have any solvents or the comin glycols that are found in most fountain solutions that break the ink down. The solvent is 34 grams/ liter and work great. We have been using the solvent for 2 1/2 years now.

                    Robert

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                    • #11
                      Re: Zero VOC Inks, Going Green

                      We also have been using a 34 gram/liter wash since January 2005. We have been using preceding generations of the low VOC fountain solution since 1992. You are correct about the fountain solution not tearing the ink apart. We have found that the washup has very little effect on the rollers 2 years or more of roller life is now the norm. I would imagine that these pressroom products put you in complete compliance with the new rules SCAQMD will have in effect January 2008.

                      What have you done with the 25 grams/liter general pressroom cleaner?

                      Thank you

                      Pat Berger
                      Mercer Color

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Zero VOC Inks, Going Green

                        We have a cleaner that meets the 25grams/liter requirement for cleaning everything in the pressroom except rollers and blankets. We have pretty much gone as far as we can in the pressroom to be green regarding chemistry. I am not just talking about meeting the SCAQMD requirements but we far below their requirement. Here is the big kicker it all works as good as or better then what we were using before that was harmful for my guys and the envirnment. My rollers life has also been extented at least double what we got out of them with our old solvent.

                        Robert

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Zero VOC Inks, Going Green

                          Robert

                          Have you seen any reduction in energy cost since switching to the products that are in compliance or lower than the SCAQMD requirements?

                          I have heard that shear forces in the ink train with these products can be lower. The possible lower shear properites could result in less power being required to run the ink train.

                          Thank you

                          Pat Berger

                          Edited by: Pat Berger on Dec 19, 2007 10:17 AM

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Zero VOC Inks, Going Green

                            Pat and Robert:
                            Great to hear that the low VOC stuff is working as good as the old materials. I think you might be a minority in that opinion, but that's a start. Pat, as far as saving energy through lower shear....you are still just talking about the clean up of the press, I mean, how do you expect to measure the energy savings? On the meter? Compared to the power used by the blowers and drive motors, that's got to be a drop in the bucket. No matter what cleaner you use, the rollers still have to be in contact by a certain amount of squeeze, or there will be NO SHEAR. Good to hear that the rollers are lasting longer. Does that mean that the roller settings are stable with the new wash materials? Must mean that there's no acetone in the cleaners. That's what SCAQMD wanted you to use in the beginning....that was pretty funny. Sounds like progress is being made.
                            John Lind
                            Cranberry Township, PA
                            724-776-4718

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Zero VOC Inks, Going Green

                              I have heard the same thing in the cost savings due to the fountain solution and ink combination reducing the shear forces in the roller train. We are not able to see a cost savings that is pin pointed to a drop in shear force mainly due to the fact we have been continually improving our facility on a number of fronts to reduce energy consumption, such as changing out all our lighting in our 75,000sq. ft. building to low voltage florescence lighting. We have also added a number of new pieces of equipment in other departments. This makes it a little difficult to isolate the cost savings in the reduction in shear force in the rollers.

                              With the ink and fountain solution system we use now you can tell the different in the sound in the release on the blankets though. It does not sound like the paper is trying to rip apart anymore with a loud snap as it use to.

                              Robert

                              Comment

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