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ISO 12647-2 - Accreditation

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  • ISO 12647-2 - Accreditation

    How do you get ISO 12647-2 Accreditation and who has it ?

  • #2
    Re: ISO 12647-2 - Accreditation

    >How do you get ISO 12647-2 Accreditation and who has it ?

    Are you referring to gaining "certification" to show that your printing process is in accordance to ISO 12647-2, or are you referring to becoming "accredited" by an athoritative body that would allow you to offer cerification services to printers in accordance to ISO 12647-2 (becoming a "registrar" if you will)?

    For the former, FOGRA/ BVDM offers certification services "based" on ISO 12647-2, but as far as I know, they are not accredited by any authority body to do so. Therefore, this isn'y truly "ISO 12647-2 certification" but a certification toward their ProzessStandard Offsetdruck ["Offset printing ProcessStandard"]. Might seem like splitting hairs, but there you go.

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    • #3
      Re: ISO 12647-2 - Accreditation

      Mike,

      There is no 'authoritative' or statutory body that authorises certification. FOGRA/BVDM offer certification to ISO but this is based not just on the printed outcome but the whole quality control process. They have developed the PSO (Process Standard Offset) printing as a means of ensuring COMPLIANCE to the ISO standard in the most cost effective and efficient way.

      The ISO develops and approves the standard but takes NO PART IN or offers any certification. This is clearly explained on the ISO website. It 'merely' describes the parameters that have to be met in order to COMPLY with the standard.

      Every day there are more and more vendors of prepress and printing 'solutions' offering certification to ISO. In other words, they will show you to comply, measure your results and supply you with a vendor specific certificate which you can show your clients. Some of these vendors have gained FOGRA credentials and are able to offer FOGRA certification. A bit like being G7 certified.

      In theory, if your staff were well-trained enough they could set up your workflow to produce results that comply with the standard however, 'self-certification' doesn't carry much credibility. If your clients were savvy enough they could measure all the proofs and printed sheets and perform the test themselves!!

      Interestingly, in the newly published proofing standard (ISO 12647-7) which is linked at the umbilical cord to the printing standards, there is an annexe which stipulates that certification MUST be conducted by a third party, ensuring the viability of a blossoming industry.

      mark

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      • #4
        Re: ISO 12647-2 - Accreditation

        >There is no 'authoritative' or statutory body that authorises certification.

        Perhaps not in regards to ISO 12647-2, although most other industries the certifying body (or registrar) is accredited by a authoritative body. I'm referring to an accreditation body similar to RABQSA or IRCA in their accreditation of registrars/auditor for ISO 9000 certification for example. The user is "certified", the registrar is accredited.


        >FOGRA/BVDM offer certification to ISO but this is based not just on the printed outcome but the whole quality control process. They have developed the PSO (Process Standard Offset) printing as a means of ensuring COMPLIANCE to the ISO standard in the most cost effective and efficient way.

        My underlying point was that there isn't currently, to my knowledge, an ISO 12647-2 Certification program, merely certification of processes toward ISO 12647-2 by means of Fogra or BVDM Certification.

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        • #5
          Re: ISO 12647-2 - Accreditation

          Dan
          The options in the UK at the moment are

          Bodoni have just announced a deal with Fogra

          Dan Wilson and ??? have just been trained by the French to certify to Ugra

          or There is a committee that we set up working in the UK to see whether we should set up our own scheme acredited to UKAS . I understand that a report will be available in the next few weeks to see whether it is viable

          Peter

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          • #6
            Re: ISO 12647-2 - Accreditation

            The only other thing I would add is that to avoid conflict of interest a certification organization shouldn't offer both consutancy and certification to the same client. In other words, certifiers should be independent of the systems they audit.

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            • #7
              Re: ISO 12647-2 - Accreditation

              Mike,

              I recognise your point about organisations or authorities which provide certification and it will be great to see our industry move towards more stringent quality control systems that are standards based rather than enterprise based. However, our industry is still gettng away from the 'craft' it once was and in many ways still is. It is my experience that the printing industry is not as used to standards based quality control, quality audits and certification processes that many other industries you allude to have well entrenched. The outcomes are not as critical therefore the pressure has not been as great. In other words, we are not building aeroplanes, performing surgery or managing the finances.

              In the meantime printing/prepress operators and the software/hardware engineers will do battle over technical requirements and specifcations while pondering the choice of certification processes and their implications. As the initial enquiry makes obvious there are still a lot of people scratchning their heads while many are still doubtful about the need for standards at all. Lets hope we can bring them up to speed.

              With respect to 12647-2 it is very new and the implications are that printing and prepress have to get their act together and really consider the whole workflow. It doesn't surprise me that there are no certifiaction programs as yet although I would expect that they being developed even as we speak. I can only reiterate the point about FOGRA/BVDM - it is a workflow analysis that doesn't just look at the end rsult but also how to get there in what they regard as the best possible way and it requires monitoring over time to ensure compliance is adhered to. In effect a tied auditing system. Some still think this is overkill in our industry while others think it its about time.

              Only time will tell if we will one day see the "Association of Certified Printing and Prepress Operators" (ACPPO) moving to enforce and maintain stringent standards in the interests of better quality control and, of course, higher financial remuneration.

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              • #8
                Re: ISO 12647-2 - Accreditation

                Fl├╝eli Guy Project Leader Print
                Tel. +41 71 274 76 03.

                Hey you can contact this guy. he is a member of ugra,

                All the best

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