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Heidelberg GTP 52-4P

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  • Heidelberg GTP 52-4P

    I am an owner operator with 2 QM46-2 presses and a ctp system from Heidelberg. I basically handle all functions...from pre-press to finished printed product. I have a passion for the production process and zero tolerance for press operators that are not responsible, hence I do it all....... until, of course, the right person comes along. Here is my dilemna .......I presently outsource 4-color work on a weekly basis. Not enough to justify a printmaster 52-4 color press but perhaps enough to justify a less expensive press. Should I go with a pre-owned 2-color speedmaster and run my 4-color jobs in 2 passes? OR should I take the offer Heidelberg is making. *This is their offer*.....A new 4 color GTO52 with perfector for $215,000. I have seen speedmaster 52-2 presses in the range of $120,000 to $140,000. But again, they are pre-owned and there is always an element of risk. I have never operated a GTO so I do not know what to expect........any suggestions would be greatly appreciated

  • #2
    Re: Heidelberg GTP 52-4P

    Hi jack,

    I would always suggest buying a four colour over a two colour, the GTO four colour is a great press, I ran one severn years ago and it was very good. Most four colour presses form the big press manufactures should print any 4 colour jobs with ease providing they have good rollers and consumables. The sm series are much quicker to m/r than the gto but there more complicated to fault find if there is a problem. So if you think you need fast M/R instead of one pass 4c printing then chose a SM, and get a densitometer with the change. If you think you will produce more four colour as time passes then make the jump now at least with a 2/2 you could perfect some jobs.


    Paul

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    • #3
      Re: Heidelberg GTP 52-4P

      we were in a similar situation. we had a 2 color gto. we needed to do something. I thought QMDI. so we bought a qmdi. spent about $80,000 on a used but nice di. the color was better than we used to do with the gto. make ready with the gto was outrageous.
      the di really opened our eyes. it had issues. trying to get a pressman that will do what you tell them can be tedious. and you can not redo every job. we bought an sm52-2. worth 4 times what a gto is worth. just the auto washes make hours of extra time. auto plate and plate adjusting are great. the feeder hands down better than the gto and qm. my opinion is if you want to complete long term, you should consider something more than the gto. a used sm52-4 can be had for under $250,000.00 just my thoughts. a gto is a great press but go look at an sm or qmdi before you finalize your decision.

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      • #4
        Re: Heidelberg GTP 52-4P

        We looked at the SM52 2 when we bought our GTO52 VP and after seeing the SM52 2's Job M/R & C/O ( Auto Plate, Auto Blanket Wash, Electronics etc. ).

        I think it would be touch and go as to what would be best. If you were going to do a lot of long run work - I would go with the GTO. If its a mix of short run colour and PMS Jobs I would go the SM52 2.

        I have both GTO52VP and QM46 2 and as already stated the MR on the GTO is way too long ( 30-50mins).

        We use both metal and poly on the GTO to good effect, once the operators realise that poly is not out to get them........

        It's a different ball game in Australia with a good used Post 1997 GTO52V or SM52 2 in the $180k - $230k range. ( Open Season )

        Used properly a QM46 2 ( Simillar to the SM52 2) kills a GTO for productivity but if you want quality 3 or 4 Colour you need registration and you'll need an SM52 or GTO52

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        • #5
          Re: Heidelberg GTP 52-4P

          Jack I look what your companies does = which is Pizzamenus- my only comment is dont make the mistake lots of us have made and get involved in the "romance in print" - Have you looked at say a reconditioned Indigo as an option.

          Peter

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          • #6
            Re: Heidelberg GTP 52-4P

            With respect to the GTO..... what is considered a long run? From what I have been reading 30 to 40 minutes for a make ready is certainly a bit too long.........*If* my work is generally more 2-color than 4 color, would the SM 52-2 be the wiser choice? After living in the QM-46-2 world I would most likely be impressed with the GTO's finished product....... What is making me lean toward the GTO is being in that "comfort zone"......I have always been partial to buying new and have been relatively satisfied with the service I have received from Heidelberg ..... +although there have been moments where I have been disappointed+ but in my opinion there isn't a company out there that is "batting 1000" when it comes to service....so I pose this question to the "community"........... at $180,000, is the GTO-52-4P worth it?

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            • #7
              Re: Heidelberg GTP 52-4P

              What does that phrase (romance in print) mean?

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              • #8
                Re: Heidelberg GTP 52-4P

                Rob:
                As I do more research I am realizing that what you're saying is soooooo true. I will keep ypu posted..again, thank you for your input

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                • #9
                  Re: Heidelberg GTP 52-4P

                  I found it very helpful to post my concerns......after some consideration I decided that the GTO 52-4 was not for me (at any price).......I have decided to narrow my choice to either the SM52-2 or the Komori Lithrone....leaning more towards the Komori.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Heidelberg GTP 52-4P

                    you might get a price on a printmaster pm52. not the pm gto, but the scaled down sm52.
                    I got a price of just over $400,000.00 nicely equiped

                    also dont be scared of a used sm 52 four color. just have it checked out throughly. run dry solids and break aways.
                    run a 1 inch hair line grid on the whole 14x20 sheet. then run a gatf color test if it is a perfector run any job through in perfecting then run the printed sheets through 2 more time see how the registration runs on 50 sheets through 3 times. also perfectors do require a little more maintainance. but unless the perfecting gripper bar is damaged it can be adjusted and fixed fairly easily.

                    after running a gto and an sm52. i would rather have a used but nice sm52 than a new gto at almost any price.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by menuprinter View Post
                      I am an owner operator with 2 QM46-2 presses and a ctp system from Heidelberg. I basically handle all functions...from pre-press to finished printed product. I have a passion for the production process and zero tolerance for press operators that are not responsible, hence I do it all....... until, of course, the right person comes along. Here is my dilemna .......I presently outsource 4-color work on a weekly basis. Not enough to justify a printmaster 52-4 color press but perhaps enough to justify a less expensive press. Should I go with a pre-owned 2-color speedmaster and run my 4-color jobs in 2 passes? OR should I take the offer Heidelberg is making. *This is their offer*.....A new 4 color GTO52 with perfector for $215,000. I have seen speedmaster 52-2 presses in the range of $120,000 to $140,000. But again, they are pre-owned and there is always an element of risk. I have never operated a GTO so I do not know what to expect........any suggestions would be greatly appreciated
                      I was quite suprised to see what you were being quoted for a preowned SM52-2. As a printing machinery Tech for many years, and worked for Heidelberg for some of those.
                      The Speedmaster series is there premier/top of the line equipment and the price they demand reflects that sentiment. With the amount of automation that the SM has and
                      what I believe, if I am analyzing your operation accurately, That most of your work is shorter run, therefore automation will be of the greatest benefit to keep your costs under control. I can offer a SM52-2 for much less that $100,000 which should make this a press that would be the best for you business and a great stepping stone for a 52-4 if the
                      orders dictate. Hope this helps

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                      • #12
                        yes, things are really getting cheap now that everyone is going out of business.

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                        • #13
                          After reading all the posts, I decide to get a SM52-2 instead of Ryobi 3304HA because of landscape feed, print quality and ease of use. What is the price range of a used SM52-2 nowadays?

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