AB dick 360 registration?

[realmstar]

I only want to hear from an ab dick 360 operators. Can you tell me what the regular registration gap is for an ab dick 360? For instance if I print 10,000 pages of lines or text and take that same paper and put it back through to print the same text and lines over it how much will it be off in mm when it overlaps? What's the regular amount and the max amount it will be off?

For example the max it will be off could be 2mm but its typically off by only 1mm? I am just giving an example of what help I am looking for?

Thanks

 

[keith1]

Still some old 360's kicking around by the sounds of it. Who'da thought. Registration on them was always 'iffy' at best. But they were never intended to be a machine built for quality work. What you'll get depends on the condition of the machine, settings (pressures, paper into impression grippers etc). First rule of thumb is to make sure the paper is feeding properly. Being that any 360 around today will be old, there's likely a lot of worn parts that will hinder your attempts.
Copiers (Xerox, Canon etc.) replaced AD Dicks years ago.

Hamada's are/were by far superior to AB Dicks. Comparable sheet size to a 360 would be a Hamada 600 (or 660, 2 colour configuration). While we're at it, the 2nd colour unit on a Hamada was far superior to a T51 too (which in my opinion, were the biggest piece of shit ever. Nothing but trouble). At the time both were new, Hamada's were also cheaper to buy. Hamada is/was similar to old Multi's, only better.

Dicks can print pretty thin lines, except maybe on heavily textured stock. If it can't, it's because you need to start replacing parts or settings. Most obvious would be the blanket.
0.1pt lines should be avoided regardless of equipment.

 

[realmstar]

Can you tell me in mm how far off the registration is on the sheets?

 

[Gopher Broke]

The A B Dick is a duplicator not a press for fine work. Registration is hit or miss depending on the stock and condition of the press.

 

[dabob]

Yes a 360 will print almost anything that you can get to stick on the plate . . . just more likely than not . . never in the same place twice . . . .

 

[realmstar]

As long as the registration is no wider then 1mm square on an ab dick 360 and can stay consistent like that when printing 10k plus sheets then that is fine for us. Or does it print farther away then 1mm square or can?

 

[keith1]

As long as the registration is no wider then 1mm square on an ab dick 360 and can stay consistent like that when printing 10k plus sheets then that is fine for us. Or does it print farther away then 1mm square or can?

You've just had 4 people tell you that registration on an AB Dick is a crap shoot at best and still you persevere. Seems like you're waiting for someone to tell you everything will turn out wonderful. It won't, unless your customer isn't in the least bit critical.

 

[realmstar]

You've just had 4 people tell you that registration on an AB Dick is a crap shoot at best and still you persevere. Seems like you're waiting for someone to tell you everything will turn out wonderful. It won't, unless your customer isn't in the least bit critical.

4 people responded but nobody is responding to question. The question is how many mm off is the registration? For instance 1mm, 1.5mm, 2mm etc.. If I print 10k or more what mm will my registration be in? Bashing the press and calling it crap for registration is far from the response I'm looking for. I keep trying to put the topic back to the original question. I don't need any flawless registration as I'm not doing CYMK work. So maybe its registration will be okay. I hope i can get at least a few ab dick 360 operators that will respond and let me know in mm how off it is? For us no greater then 1mm is okay? Hoping for real feedback on the question at hand. Thanks.

 

[dabob]

There is no absolute answer to your question . . I've seen Heidelbergs registrations jump further than that . . . and I have seen AB Dicks run process work - it is completely dependent on the operator and the condition of the press . . . its like asking if a particular rifle is capable of shooting 1 inch groups at 300 yards - the answer is gong to always be maybe - again depends on the operator . . . .

 

[Alois Senefelder]

Image Registration !


Gentlemen, NOT one of you have suggested checking " Does the Press Register on Itself"

to do this run the press at various IPH............ ON IMPRESSION, no paper being printed.

Check Image on the blanket for any register variation...... like "Doubling "


Regards, Alois

 

[keith1]

Image Registration !


Gentlemen, NOT one of you have suggested checking " Does the Press Register on Itself"

to do this run the press at various IPH............ ON IMPRESSION, no paper being printed.

Check Image on the blanket for any register variation...... like "Doubling "


Regards, Alois

It's more variable than this. What you suggest doesn't account for paper feed problems/variations, paper stretch/shrinkage in between 1st & 2nd pass, possible plate stretch (could be caused by poor pressures), difference between 1st couple hundred impressions & 10,000 impressions . . .

If the operator doesn't already know the machines limitations, this indicates to me that the operator is inexperienced with this particular press. I would suggest to farm out the job and have peace of mind. I certainly wouldn't count on this machine staying within 1.5mm. Some sheets are likely to be on and some off. No one wants to sort through 10,000 sheets to pick out the good ones.
On the other hand, if you don't run the machine too fast you may be OK. As someone else noted, there's no absolute response unless you already know this press and what it can do. No 360's are alike. Especially at the age this one will be.

Keith

 

[dabob]

It's more variable than this. What you suggest doesn't account for paper feed problems/variations, paper stretch/shrinkage in between 1st & 2nd pass, possible plate stretch (could be caused by poor pressures), difference between 1st couple hundred impressions & 10,000 impressions . . .

If the operator doesn't already know the machines limitations, this indicates to me that the operator is inexperienced with this particular press. I would suggest to farm out the job and have peace of mind. I certainly wouldn't count on this machine staying within 1.5mm. Some sheets are likely to be on and some off. No one wants to sort through 10,000 sheets to pick out the good ones.
On the other hand, if you don't run the machine too fast you may be OK. As someone else noted, there's no absolute response unless you already know this press and what it can do. No 360's are alike. Especially at the age this one will be.

Keith

Alios is not saying their are no other factors but if the press won't register to itself all the other issues are moot . . . .

 

[CostaRicaPrinter]

360 registration - I've got about every model of AB Dick made. The "direct feed" system was made to be "good", not perfect. You will get "good" registration (around 1.5 to 2 mm) across a run if the following factors are met: 1) Assuming the press gears and general condition are sound (Alois); 2) Assuming your feed rollers come down parallel and are not misadjusted. This happens on AB Dick's and must be re-adjusted from time to time. The Manuals tell you how to do it. Most of my presses have spacers; 3) You use a plate that isn't going to stretch or fall down on the cylinder; 4) Your paper is cut right and you feed it all with the same grain; 5) Your buckle setting is proper. Good luck!

 

[realmstar]

I spoke to an an dick expert and he said a brand new ab dick 360 when made will actually give you registration within .17mm and I must say that's pretty tight from what people are saying. He says if the machine is old and worn down the registration goes up from there. So for it to be 1mm to 2mm registration the machine parts must be in bad condition. You can even see videos of people doing CYMK work with no t head on an ab dick 360.

 

[dabob]

No Title

I spoke to an an dick expert and he said a brand new ab dick 360 when made will actually give you registration within .17mm and I must say that's pretty tight from what people are saying. He says if the machine is old and worn down the registration goes up from there. So for it to be 1mm to 2mm registration the machine parts must be in bad condition. You can even see videos of people doing CYMK work with no t head on an ab dick 360.

realmstar . . . your right, IF . . . the machine is in very good condition, the operator is an abdick expert, and the wind is blowing in the right direction - I have run process work on a Chief 15, and Hamadas with T heads . . . doesn't mean I am going to get rid of my Heidelbergs . . . and a saying I have posted on my wall . . .

 

[gregbatch]

I've only been able to run that tight registration at lowest possible speed on a relatively new machine. Without the OP telling exactly what they are trying to achieve it's impossible to say whether a 360 can do the job.

 

[jimas67]

I'm curious to find out if you found a solution?

 

[realmstar]

I used a 360 and it has flawless registration. It was spot on so perfect that when you looked with a 10x loop on a page that had the same thing printed over it twice you could not even tell your print had two passes done. Impossible to tell. So I can say the 360 has flawless registration. It prints in the exact same place perfectly everytime. If yours does not then there is something wrong with the machine and you need it fixed.

 

[nitro912gr]

sorry for the resurrection but I'm about to get a 375CD and wanted to know if it got any better than the 360.
The friend who sell it to me say they can't get it right with the newer 9980 they work and they don't believe the 375 can either, but what you people have said above give me hope that maybe they just didn't know how to do it, than that is not possible.

 

[Magnus59]

sorry for the resurrection but I'm about to get a 375CD and wanted to know if it got any better than the 360.
The friend who sell it to me say they can't get it right with the newer 9980 they work and they don't believe the 375 can either, but what you people have said above give me hope that maybe they just didn't know how to do it, than that is not possible.

I used to do critical registration jobs eg. 6 spot colour letterheads with butt fitting colours on a 375 with no problems, you just can't run it flat out.