Advanced colour management in Prinect Workflow

[T-Roy]

Hi,

We are an insert printer (mainly flyer work) that prints on everything from 45GSM standard newsprint up to 70lb #3 gloss.

We currently have Printready V3.5, Meta and Signastation.

Up until now, we have been printing to a SWOP standard for everything (one coated and one uncoated). I've output uncalibrated targets and had the press run solid densities to spec and then edited process curves to within tolerances. Our proofs use canned SWOP profiles and the presspeople then "match" the proof. The proofs are surprisingly close and everything seems to work reasonably well.

This being said, I would like to properly colour manage our workflow/press with appropriate TAC levels and UCR/GCR (for ink saving and press stability) for at least 4 different grades of paper - and then make corresponding ICC profiles for proofing.

Of course I would like to base our settings on a standard (ISO, GRACOL, SWOP, etc) and at the same time follow the G7 approach.

Is anyone doing this in their Heidelberg workflow?

I am comfortable with process calibration curves, the creation of ICC profiles and Device link profiles but it's not clear how/where these get entered into the Printready Workflow as the explanations therein are decidedly "Germlish".

I am also not that clear on which standard I should use taking into account the range of papers we use. There doesn't seem to be any one in particular that encompasses newsprint, high-brights, SCB, SCA, #5 coated, and #3 coated.

Any help/input with this would be appreciated.

Thanks in Advance

 

[Mike Strickler]

Re: Advanced colour management in Prinect Workflow

Gads, you've covered a lot of territory in this question and actually raised additional issues. First, Prinect's older press calibration isn't as good as it could be because it measures only C, M, Y, and K ramps, as i recall. This cannot address gray balance errors as can, for example, looking at CMY grays, whether using an official G7 method with a P2P chart or something as simple as measuring the 50 40 40 patch. Second, you say the proofs are "surprisingly close," but close to what? Close to your uncertain press output?

The first thing you need to do is create proper contract proofs that are verifiably accurate with respect to the reference color--GRACoL, SWOP3, etc. This confirmation is made by measuring a control wedge, generally 40-64 patches. A thorough check of the system might use an entire IT8.7/4 or similar chart with 1600 or so patches. If you can't do this stop and go no further until this matter is resolved.

Once you have accurate proofs you can set about matching your press output to them. Rather than profiling your press, which is tricky and expensive to do properly, you can adjust your output to come close to the reference print conditions. G7 method is possible with Prinect and is completely consistent with GRACoL, SWOP, and SNAP, which all have G7 gray balance and print contrast. Device link profiles enter the picture if preexisting CMYK must be reconverted to a print condition that's noticeably different, e.g., from coated to uncoated, or otherwise adjust the files to print better. When the CMYK is originally created you can use a standard profile that has a good amount of GCR from the start, and device links never enter the situation.

As for the last point, of course no one standard/profile encompasses all the print conditions you mentioned; files must often be separated or reseparated specifically for each one, though some conditions may be similar enough as to us the same profile. And you must have separate proofing queues, each with its own correct reference (source) profile.

Please feel free to contact me for further information and resources in your area.

Best regards,

Mike Strickler
MSP Graphic Services
IDEAlliance G7 Expert
Certified Implementer, EFI Proofing Products
707-664-1628

 

[marktonk]

Hi T-roy,

Do you have Prinect Color Tools to generate profiles? This also has a new utility called Gray Balance Optimizer, which makes obtaining a near neutral calibration very easy. I am posting a press release that quotes users as to it's ease of use as state by RIT, PIA/GATF and various printers in the release. If you have an earlier version, i.e Prinect Color Toolbox, it is upgradeable. By reading Mike's response, he does not seem familiar with our latest software or our techniques. Please contact your local Heidelberg organization for further details.

Regards,

Mark


Heidelberg Expands Prinect Color Toolbox

Wednesday, March 04, 2009
KENNESAW, Ga. - Heidelberg is pleased to announce the release of its Prinect Color Toolbox v3.5 with Gray Balance Optimizer calibration tool, the latest addition to its Prinect Color Toolbox suite of integrated color management solutions for optimizing color and imaging among proofing, plating and press output devices. The Prinect Color Toolbox also enables printers to calibrate their equipment to the GRACoL G7 specification.

Gray Balance Optimizer is an extremely simple, user-friendly way to accomplish near neutral calibrations. Gray Balance Optimizer can also be used for creating reference values for specific substrates, inks, or printing processes. The software uses industry standard color management targets such as the IT8.7/4 or EC2002, etc., requires no special charts and eliminates the need to print TVI (dot gain) scales in order to perform calibrations. Gray Balance Optimizer achieves both tone reproduction and gray balance by calculating new CtP curves to match any desired target. Near-neutral calibration with Gray Balance Optimizer enables print shops to assure their customers of accurate, repeatable color matches from job to job, even when using different materials and output devices.

"It's much easier to calibrate using a common standard reference profile for different presses or output devices," said Chuck Koehler, Senior Demonstrator for Print Quality Standards at Heidelberg’s Print Media Demonstration Center. “Conventional calibration methods have had to contend with dot gain issues associated with specific inks, substrates, printing processes and pressroom conditions, but where the traditional method has been to pick a dot gain target and calibrate the CtP process curves to it, Gray Balance Optimizer technology uses profiles or user-defined reference values to calibrate directly to the neutral tone characteristics of the reference profile.”

Praise for Gray Balance Optimizer
“Heidelberg’s Gray Balance Optimizer enables me to achieve near-neutral optimization from one color space to any other color space quickly and easily,” said Steven Smiley, Director of Color Technology at Vertis, Inc. and Chair Print Properties & Colorimetric WG. “It’s a huge advantage to be able to receive a file with any output intent profile and then print to any location or printing type, with a set of curves for my plates that allow my customer’s expectations to be met, regardless of where the file came from. Gray Balance Optimizer is the only tool that lets me do that easily.”

“Gray Balance Optimizer is a terrific tool that makes it dead simple for us to create near neutral calibrations and device link profiles from our current press and proof conditions to any standard,” including GRACoL G7, said Peter Montgomery, Director of Prepress at Moquin Press, Belmont, Calif. “I like the fact that we can use the same IT8 target to generate near neutral curves and profiles. Prinect is feature rich-and has tools to accomplish all of our color needs.”

“What impressed us about Gray Balance Optimizer was that it got closer to achieving an acceptable gray balance the first time,” adds Gary Gassman, Prepress Team Leader at Lahlouh, a Bay Area commercial printer. “With other methods, we often had two or three different iterations before we could achieve an satisfactory result.” Moreover, “The way it ties into Prinect Image Control saves us even more time, since we can evaluate all our variables (L*a*b values) more efficiently at press.”

“R.I.T. has been using Gray Balance Optimizer during seminars on its Heidelberg Speedmaster sheetfed offset lithographic press for the past year,” said Steve Suffoletto, Senior Training Specialist at R.I.T.'s Printing Application Laboratory. “The results have been very impressive, resulting in low Delta E color difference between the proof and press match. Gray Balance Optimizer is an efficient, effective calibration tool because the first attempt often provides accurate results, eliminating the need for additional expensive press testing.” Furthermore, Suffoletto said, “With Gray Balance Optimizer, users are not restricted to using a special test target with a limited number of color patches or single specification target. Printing is a global business these days, so the flexibility to use any U.S. or international target and specification is of tremendous value.”

“Color Toolbox v3.5 combines an ICC open architecture for measurement, calibration, characterization, diagnostics, editing and verification to any ICC characterization dataset or profile,” said Joe Suffoletto, Senior Technical Service Consultant for PIA/GATF. “A wide variety of color measurement devices are pre-installed for easy plug-and play measurements, including Prinect Image Control. A full set of profiling parameters, including device link profile generation is also at hand. Heidelberg’s Gray Balance Optimizer yields excellent results and accuracy to the ISO 12647 series of color reproduction standards, reference printing conditions and specifications such GRACoL G7.”

Do You See What I See?
Gray Balance Optimizer automatically accounts for differences in substrates, inks, overprint trap characteristics and processes, and the results create visually existing standards such as ISO, GRACoL or SWOP. With a few clicks of a mouse, users can prompt the Gray Balance Optimizer to compare data and generate values for calibration. The accuracy of the new CtP curves is verified by repeating the press test over again using the calibrated plates and the exact same test conditions as the first calibration run. Color Toolbox also enables users to verify calibrations by applying the resulting curves directly to the process profile, eliminating the verification run. The new functionality enables different output devices to calibrate to a common visual appearance, yielding consistent color from any press.

 

[Chuck Koehler]

Hello T-Roy,

Heidelberg workflow is extremely easy to apply color management. There are sections for the profiles in Printready and it can take regular profiles or device links.

As to your desire to calibrate and profile 4 different substrates with GCR Settings for Ink Savings this is easy as well.

You also mentioned that you want to employ the G7 methododlogy to calibrate to. Using this type of methodology with Heidelberg's Prinect Color Toolbox is very straightforward as well. With our new Gray Balance Optimizer you can choose your "Master" target and scale all of the rest to fit. For example, if you start with GRACoL Coated you can use this to calculate targets for newsprint, high-brights, SCB, SCA, #5 coated, and #3 coated. Of course #5 and #3 Coateds already have their own "Standards". This is really what is at the heart of the G7 philosophy, and Heidelberg's Color Toolbox gives you al of the tools necessary to accomplish what you are trying to do.

Because your correspondence encompasses so many poiunts it would be easier if you want to contact me directly. You can start by e-mailing me at: [email protected]

I will look forward to hearing from you soon.


Regards,

Chuck Koehler
Prinect Color Specialist
Heidelberg USA

 

[T-Roy]

Gads, you've covered a lot of territory in this question and actually raised additional issues. First, Prinect's older press calibration isn't as good as it could be because it measures only C, M, Y, and K ramps, as i recall. This cannot address gray balance errors as can, for example, looking at CMY grays, whether using an official G7 method with a P2P chart or something as simple as measuring the 50 40 40 patch. Second, you say the proofs are "surprisingly close," but close to what? Close to your uncertain press output?

The first thing you need to do is create proper contract proofs that are verifiably accurate with respect to the reference color--GRACoL, SWOP3, etc. This confirmation is made by measuring a control wedge, generally 40-64 patches. A thorough check of the system might use an entire IT8.7/4 or similar chart with 1600 or so patches. If you can't do this stop and go no further until this matter is resolved.

Once you have accurate proofs you can set about matching your press output to them. Rather than profiling your press, which is tricky and expensive to do properly, you can adjust your output to come close to the reference print conditions. G7 method is possible with Prinect and is completely consistent with GRACoL, SWOP, and SNAP, which all have G7 gray balance and print contrast. Device link profiles enter the picture if preexisting CMYK must be reconverted to a print condition that's noticeably different, e.g., from coated to uncoated, or otherwise adjust the files to print better. When the CMYK is originally created you can use a standard profile that has a good amount of GCR from the start, and device links never enter the situation.

As for the last point, of course no one standard/profile encompasses all the print conditions you mentioned; files must often be separated or reseparated specifically for each one, though some conditions may be similar enough as to us the same profile. And you must have separate proofing queues, each with its own correct reference (source) profile.

Please feel free to contact me for further information and resources in your area.

Best regards,

Mike Strickler
MSP Graphic Services
IDEAlliance G7 Expert
Certified Implementer, EFI Proofing Products
707-664-1628

Hi Mike,

Thanks for your extensive feedback on my questions.

Perhaps I wasn't as clear in my explanation but yes I have verified that the proofs we are providing for the press are indeed within SWOP tolerances via using both step wedges and a 940 patch IT8 target.

As well, I did edit the process calibration curves based on running to a standard solid density and addressed the dot gain for each cmyk separation at various points - again based on SWOP tolerances for gain. The proof is a contract SWOP proof and the press has been calibrated so that it can match that proof and it all works well the vast majority of the time.

What I am looking for is the next level of colour management where gray balance, TAC & GCR/UCR are included in the process for each paper.

For example, I would like a different TAC and GCR applied to newsprint jobs as compared to #3 gloss jobs - while still conforming to an established process standard such as SWOP,GRACOL, SNAP,ISO etc.

In a perfect world, it would be nice if I could find one standard for all of the papers in our range of capabilities, but that doesn't appear to be possible. None of them have dot gain/lab values/solid density information and icc profiles for all of the papers we use.

Thanks again Mike for your offer for resource referral.

I may just take you up on that after I get a little further into the process.

Regards,

 

[T-Roy]

Hi T-roy,

Do you have Prinect Color Tools to generate profiles? This also has a new utility called Gray Balance Optimizer, which makes obtaining a near neutral calibration very easy. I am posting a press release that quotes users as to it's ease of use as state by RIT, PIA/GATF and various printers in the release. If you have an earlier version, i.e Prinect Color Toolbox, it is upgradeable. By reading Mike's response, he does not seem familiar with our latest software or our techniques. Please contact your local Heidelberg organization for further details.

Regards,

Mark


Heidelberg Expands Prinect Color Toolbox

Wednesday, March 04, 2009
KENNESAW, Ga. - Heidelberg is pleased to announce the release of its Prinect Color Toolbox v3.5 with Gray Balance Optimizer calibration tool, the latest addition to its Prinect Color Toolbox suite of integrated color management solutions for optimizing color and imaging among proofing, plating and press output devices. The Prinect Color Toolbox also enables printers to calibrate their equipment to the GRACoL G7 specification.

Gray Balance Optimizer is an extremely simple, user-friendly way to accomplish near neutral calibrations. Gray Balance Optimizer can also be used for creating reference values for specific substrates, inks, or printing processes. The software uses industry standard color management targets such as the IT8.7/4 or EC2002, etc., requires no special charts and eliminates the need to print TVI (dot gain) scales in order to perform calibrations. Gray Balance Optimizer achieves both tone reproduction and gray balance by calculating new CtP curves to match any desired target. Near-neutral calibration with Gray Balance Optimizer enables print shops to assure their customers of accurate, repeatable color matches from job to job, even when using different materials and output devices.

"It's much easier to calibrate using a common standard reference profile for different presses or output devices," said Chuck Koehler, Senior Demonstrator for Print Quality Standards at Heidelberg’s Print Media Demonstration Center. “Conventional calibration methods have had to contend with dot gain issues associated with specific inks, substrates, printing processes and pressroom conditions, but where the traditional method has been to pick a dot gain target and calibrate the CtP process curves to it, Gray Balance Optimizer technology uses profiles or user-defined reference values to calibrate directly to the neutral tone characteristics of the reference profile.”

Praise for Gray Balance Optimizer
“Heidelberg’s Gray Balance Optimizer enables me to achieve near-neutral optimization from one color space to any other color space quickly and easily,” said Steven Smiley, Director of Color Technology at Vertis, Inc. and Chair Print Properties & Colorimetric WG. “It’s a huge advantage to be able to receive a file with any output intent profile and then print to any location or printing type, with a set of curves for my plates that allow my customer’s expectations to be met, regardless of where the file came from. Gray Balance Optimizer is the only tool that lets me do that easily.”

“Gray Balance Optimizer is a terrific tool that makes it dead simple for us to create near neutral calibrations and device link profiles from our current press and proof conditions to any standard,” including GRACoL G7, said Peter Montgomery, Director of Prepress at Moquin Press, Belmont, Calif. “I like the fact that we can use the same IT8 target to generate near neutral curves and profiles. Prinect is feature rich-and has tools to accomplish all of our color needs.”

“What impressed us about Gray Balance Optimizer was that it got closer to achieving an acceptable gray balance the first time,” adds Gary Gassman, Prepress Team Leader at Lahlouh, a Bay Area commercial printer. “With other methods, we often had two or three different iterations before we could achieve an satisfactory result.” Moreover, “The way it ties into Prinect Image Control saves us even more time, since we can evaluate all our variables (L*a*b values) more efficiently at press.”

“R.I.T. has been using Gray Balance Optimizer during seminars on its Heidelberg Speedmaster sheetfed offset lithographic press for the past year,” said Steve Suffoletto, Senior Training Specialist at R.I.T.'s Printing Application Laboratory. “The results have been very impressive, resulting in low Delta E color difference between the proof and press match. Gray Balance Optimizer is an efficient, effective calibration tool because the first attempt often provides accurate results, eliminating the need for additional expensive press testing.” Furthermore, Suffoletto said, “With Gray Balance Optimizer, users are not restricted to using a special test target with a limited number of color patches or single specification target. Printing is a global business these days, so the flexibility to use any U.S. or international target and specification is of tremendous value.”

“Color Toolbox v3.5 combines an ICC open architecture for measurement, calibration, characterization, diagnostics, editing and verification to any ICC characterization dataset or profile,” said Joe Suffoletto, Senior Technical Service Consultant for PIA/GATF. “A wide variety of color measurement devices are pre-installed for easy plug-and play measurements, including Prinect Image Control. A full set of profiling parameters, including device link profile generation is also at hand. Heidelberg’s Gray Balance Optimizer yields excellent results and accuracy to the ISO 12647 series of color reproduction standards, reference printing conditions and specifications such GRACoL G7.”

Do You See What I See?
Gray Balance Optimizer automatically accounts for differences in substrates, inks, overprint trap characteristics and processes, and the results create visually existing standards such as ISO, GRACoL or SWOP. With a few clicks of a mouse, users can prompt the Gray Balance Optimizer to compare data and generate values for calibration. The accuracy of the new CtP curves is verified by repeating the press test over again using the calibrated plates and the exact same test conditions as the first calibration run. Color Toolbox also enables users to verify calibrations by applying the resulting curves directly to the process profile, eliminating the verification run. The new functionality enables different output devices to calibrate to a common visual appearance, yielding consistent color from any press.

Hi Mark,

Thanks for the response and yes I am aware of the expanded feature set within Prinect Color Toolbox v3.5 - in fact I have ordered the upgrade and expect to have it in my hands within the next couple of weeks. I am particularly intrigued with the gray balance feature and ability of the software to create process calibration curves for us.

I see that Chuck has also responded and I will be sure to contact him with my more detailed questions moving forward.

Thanks again and regards,

 

[T-Roy]

Hello T-Roy,

Heidelberg workflow is extremely easy to apply color management. There are sections for the profiles in Printready and it can take regular profiles or device links.

As to your desire to calibrate and profile 4 different substrates with GCR Settings for Ink Savings this is easy as well.

You also mentioned that you want to employ the G7 methododlogy to calibrate to. Using this type of methodology with Heidelberg's Prinect Color Toolbox is very straightforward as well. With our new Gray Balance Optimizer you can choose your "Master" target and scale all of the rest to fit. For example, if you start with GRACoL Coated you can use this to calculate targets for newsprint, high-brights, SCB, SCA, #5 coated, and #3 coated. Of course #5 and #3 Coateds already have their own "Standards". This is really what is at the heart of the G7 philosophy, and Heidelberg's Color Toolbox gives you al of the tools necessary to accomplish what you are trying to do.

Because your correspondence encompasses so many poiunts it would be easier if you want to contact me directly. You can start by e-mailing me at: [email protected]

I will look forward to hearing from you soon.


Regards,

Chuck Koehler
Prinect Color Specialist
Heidelberg USA

Thanks Chuck,

I'd certainly appreciate a couple of pointers of exactly where the appropriate profiles need to be placed and a few other details.

I'll send you an email with my contact information and we'll talk soon.

Regards,

 

[marktonk]

Hi T-Roy,

Joe B. will also be calling you.

Best regards,

Mark

 

[Mike Strickler]

G-7 Implementation and DL Conversions

G-7 Implementation and DL Conversions

Mark: I AM aware, which is why I referred to Prinect's "older press calibration," which is what T-Roy has currently, from his description.

T-Roy: You have just heard from H'berg's Rapid Response Team that they are selling a G-7-like product, and of course this is an option. I have not had an opportunity to evaluate it. Bear in mind that the concept is well-known and can be implemented in various ways with various tools, from the simple and free to the complex and costly. It may take a while to sift through the options. Likewise with PDF workflow products. You can do CMYK-CMYK conversions right in Acrobat, for Pete's sake, including preserving the black channel. Remember that the GCR formula is locked into each profile and is appropriate for that print condition. You don't need to buy anything for this. On the other hand, workflow products can add a lot of convenience ad foolproofing, invaluable when you have a large department and uniformity of procedures is a concern. The niftiest PDF product i've yet seen is from Alwan; it analyzes every image and adjusts the GCR accordingly, so different GCR can exist even within the same document. The also now have a very nice dynamic G7 implementation which runs off color bars and is highly intelligent and automated--but you must have an Intellitrax, with the spectral option.

There are a lot of great tools out there now; as always it takes a lot of study to determine what will be most appropriate. What I can say is that there is no "bolt-on" solution; intelligent implementation will be the heart of the system, no matter what you buy.

Mark Tonk wrote:

By reading Mike's response, he does not seem familiar with our latest software or our techniques. Please contact your local Heidelberg organization for further details.

 

[marktonk]

T-Roy,
You can also use Color Tools can generate GCR as part of the standard software, no added expense,


Mike,
I thought you were referring to our Calibration software, nothing changed in Meta.You are right, there are many ways to acheive near nuetral. Several in the press release are G7 consultants and are impressed with the easily obtained results using our solution. Remember, it also generates ICC profiles and edits them.



Regards,
Mark

 

[meddington]

Ive also heard that Heidelberg's Gray Balance Optimizer holds 15 times its weight in liquid, besting the Shamwow.

Ok not really, but I was given a demo by Chuck a while back and gray balance optimizer is a very simple and effective tool. However, it does require the wherwithal and complexity of a press characterization in order to generate the required icc profile.

 

[marktonk]

Besting Shamwow, look out, Vince is looking for you now!!

Regards,

Mark

 

[Mike Strickler]

Near Neutral and other Products

Near Neutral and other Products

I was referring to a previous product that measured only primary ramps and thus did nothing to address gray balance. We are both in agreement that this was inadequate and is the reason the Near Neutral product now exists.

I do take some issue with the fuss many vendors are making over Gray Component Replacement, or GCR, which has become the new buzzword. For those looking in who are still learning about this, let me say that GCR normally is a feature of the ICC output, or separation profile, and is present in healthy amounts in current "off-the-shelf" profiles that one may already be using to create CMYK from RGB images, or when converting from one CMYK space to another, for example when repurposing images from coated sheetfed to uncoated web, among many possibilities. One is well advised to pick a profile with a moderately strong GCR to help maintain gray stability, as some of the hue drift is removed with the CMY replaced by black ink. These GCR profiles can be made in any profiling application from existing reference data sets (GRACoL, SWOP, SNAP, etc.) or one can just use one of the existing good profiles for this. (You can test their GCR content in Photoshop very easily.) One can also import older profiles into the same profiling apps that created them and quickly generate a new profile with more GCR, if desired. These profiles can of course be used in a workflow product as well, where device links are then used to preserve black type, etc.

T-Roy: Please keep in mind that while GCR can be a boon to careful, quality-conscious printers (and provide some ink savings as well), it requires more care on the part of press operators, who must now control the black as vigilantly as any other color. If black solid densities are allowed to be varied "creatively" on a per-job basis a strong GCR can produce some rather nasty effects. As always, once optimal SIDs are determined they must be adhered to strictly, and this means black as well.

 

[Mike Strickler]

Gray Balance Optimizer

Gray Balance Optimizer

Mike: I knew I could count on you to charge heedlessly into the Great Debate, but I'm glad it was you and not me. Yes, this is the elephant in the room: custom press characterization and profiling. How many blithely march into this minefield without understanding its implications? It is not a trivial exercise! Good press profiles are made of many runs, sometimes on many presses, with much data smoothing to produce just the right "average" or "typical" results to base a profile on. How many shops have the technical skill, the TIME and MATERIALS, and the NEED to do this? Unless there is something really exotic going on (printing on silk organza might be a candidate) a good data set usually exists that matches up pretty well to the printing conditions at hand, at least for conventional offset. Usually only the white point needs editing to get good gray balance. The rest is making sure the press matches the standard embodied in that characterization.

 

[prepressguru]

T-Roy - if you are a Heidelberg shop then using Color Tools will do everything you need. We colour calibrated our press's and proofs using the software and it works great. We do have the added benefit of image control which made the process a lot easier. We calibrated the press to standard gracol and then matched our proof to the press target. Makes it easier to match. You may be interested in updating your printready to version 4 as they have introduced device link profiles in the prepare template. My understanding is you could attach a icc in the prepare which would apply your GCR/URC directly to the PDF file. But I have not investigate this feature.

Good luck!

 

[T-Roy]

Hi Prepressguru

Yes, our prepress workflow is Printready/Meta/Signa so I'm pleased to hear that the process works well with the tools available to me within our already established workflow.

We are scheduled to receive our Printready upgrade to v.4 in about a month and I'm glad Heidelberg has provided a place in Prepare to enter device-link profiles. At this point (with v3.5), it's not really clear how one would have applied them and was at least part of my original reason for asking for some input from others using Printready and the community at large.

Unfortunately (unlike yourself), we do not have the benefit of image control on our heatset web press. This will make our process more difficult for sure but with some patience and careful planning and execution it should work out well.

What did you do for different papers? Are you using the same TAC and GCR settings for everything? Do you have only one proof setup?

Thanks for the reply and regards,

 

[T-Roy]

Hi Meddington,

Thanks for your input on this.

Would you mind explaining in more detail your comment? :

"However, it does require the wherwithal and complexity of a press characterization in order to generate the required icc profile."



I'm interested in reading your expanded thoughts on this.

Regards,

 

[meddington]

Hi Meddington,

Thanks for your input on this.

Would you mind explaining in more detail your comment? :

"However, it does require the wherwithal and complexity of a press characterization in order to generate the required icc profile."



I'm interested in reading your expanded thoughts on this.

Regards,

Well, as Mike Strickler pointed out, press characterization is not a trivial matter. The demo I was given on Gray Balance Optimizer utilized ICC profiles of the "source" and "desitination" devices to derive curve corrections toward balanced gray...and ideally that "destination" profile would be custom made from your press. Not to take away from the product, because it does what they say it does. Just know that there can be significant work done up front to get to the point of "simplcity"

 

[prepressguru]

Hi T-roy

I should have mentioned we are a sheetfeed shop =). But we do have a proofing setup for matte/uncoated stocks, works quite well.

I noticed you are in the Great White North like myself, but we are located in the centre of Canada though =P
If you plan on using Heidelberg to help you, I believe it would be the same local support people I use, the person they have on the color team is incredible, and definitely would be worth bringing in.

Good luck

 

[Chuck Koehler]

Gray Balance Optimizer

Gray Balance Optimizer

Hello TRoy,

Heidelberg's First Response Unit here with some more Sham-Wow Magic Dust!

But seriously now. Your original post asked a lot of questions and opened up what could be a never ending discussion filled with differing opinions and possible solutions. That is why I originally chimed in and let you know that Heidelberg has a product that addresses all of your needs. I also asked that you contact me (which you did) for more information - because "discussing" on these forums very often ends up being some sort of measuring contest.

I saw that Mike #1 stated that there is no "bolt on Solution", and while that is true (you will need to do your part to implement any solution) the Heidelberg solution is more "integrated" and all others are truly "Bolt On" and more than likely the bolts are rusty or not the correct thread size making the bolting difficult.

I find it interesting that some have commented that the Heidelberg Solution requires the wherewithall to do a press characterization in order to create a profile. Wow - now that is Sham Wowy! (or is it just a Sham) Of course it does!

If you can't do a proper press characterization then the rest is all smoke and mirrors anyway so you might as well buy a truck full of Sham Wow as well as a crew of Sham Wipers to help you wipe. But that may be exactly the issue: there are some that like you to believe that their solution is easier and that all others are difficult. It also amuses me that these solutions almost always require the employment of independent Sham-Wipers for implementation and maintenance.

For G7 (or any other Near Neutral Procedure) to work properly and keep working properly over time you need to accompish the same level of press characterization as you would in creating a profile. Besides, the profile that you generate for creating a Near Neutral Curve is temporary and only used for creating the curve correction (unless of course you are a genius and able to export the curve you create and imort it back into the profile thereby creating a calibrated profile and avoiding the necessity to print a verification run - possible with Heidelberg Tools) so I really can't understand the argument behind the comments about the difficulty in creating a profile. Here is a step by step:

1. Print Test Form on Raw (or Linear) Plates to Standard Inking Values. (ISO12647-2 for ISO or G7)
2. Measure Profiling Target like the IT8.7/4 from within Color Toolbox and push the "Calculate" Button and save the resulting ICC Profile
3. Open Gray Balance Optimizer and load the Target (GRACoL, SWOP, ISO) Profile and the Raw Press Profile that you just created,push the Calculate Button again and save the data
4. Open the Calibration Manager that is already integrated into your system and import the saved correction values and apply them to a new curve
5. Send out new set of plates with this curve applied and get the results you target the first time

As you can easily see there are 5 simple steps in creating a Near Neutral calibration with Heidelberg tools. So, the people who say that creating the profile is so diificult are either questioning your ability to depress the "Calculate Button" or that the Press Characterization is nearly an impossible feat.

Heidelberg suggests that you have us come in to help you implement the solution the first time or two so that we can guide you in the proper implementation. This is mostly just so that you get the procedures down in order - and learn how to get that nearly impossible press characterization done correctly.

I don't know for SURE, but I wonder if after some of the other solution providers come in to help you bolt on their solution with a team of Sham-Wipers you won't need a 12 step program to keep you on the calibration Wagon. God forbid that you need to hire an Astro-Physicist to help you push the Calculate Button in order to create a Profile!

If you would like to please follow the link below to get a wealth of information about Color Solutions available to you with Heidelberg. There are MANY great Guides for Near Neutral, Device Links, GCR and other Color Conepts and Standards that you may find very helpful, and much of this information is not product specific - just great info.

Heidelberg - Color and Quality

Sorry about the somewhat sarcastic rant, but it gets old listening to the multitudes of Sham-Wipers that offer to solve all of your issues with some magical solution and in the same breath tell you that the most powerful solution available (which happens to be integral to the solutions that you have already invested in - but available to anyone) is either a knock off of a simple and inferior product, or more difficult than calculating the air speed velocity of an African Swallow flying into a 16.5mph headwind while flapping it's wings at 153.5689 beats per minute.

By all means please contact me or any of the other Heidelberg First Responders with any questions that you may have. And remember that old saying: It's better to teach a Man to Wipe than it is to Wipe for him.

Thanks TRoy,

Chuck