advice on small die-cutter

[Lorenzo lab guy]

My search through the forum didn't show me exactly what I was looking for, so let me put my first post out there:
We print greeting cards on a Xerox Versant and are very happy with our Duplo 645. We have expanded sales of die-cut cards and are increasing our volume each month. We now use a little motorized flat-bed steel rule cutter, really just a step up from a hobbyist type device. Most of the discussions I have looked at discuss big sheet machines like Bobst or other things that are too big. We have a store that has only a 32" door and we need to die-cut 2000-4000 sheets per week. The Duplo UD 300 rotary looks really nice, but is still just a bit too much for our current volume. Also, $75,000 is hard to justify with our present volume. We need something to allow us to grow a bit and reduce our current labor. Things like an old Heidelberg Windmill won't work because of size and weight. We would be pretty comfortable with a $30,000 budget and hand feeding or stripping would be OK if the machine was otherwise pretty fast. Ideas?

 

[aqazi81]

May be you can find a small hand fed die cutters like this
http://www.exportersindia.com/uniqu...die-cutting-machine-amritsar-india-828318.htm

 

[Lorenzo lab guy]

I would need a machine with a US distributor. Thanks anyway.

 

[old guy]

we use this companys bc slitters http://www.thermotype.com/RotaryDieCutter.html they have been in florida for around 30 years and stand behind their equipment

 

[dabob]

IMHO a windmill is a small Diecutter . . . .

 

[DuploRick]

We do offer a hand fed model of the die cutter the [FONT=Calibri, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif] UDM-300. [/FONT]This model should fit into your budget. You can contact your local dealer for pricing and our web-site for more information

 

[Lorenzo lab guy]

Thanks Rick. We will contact Graphic Associates in Cleveland.

 

[Shawnd]

How much is that hand fed UDM-300? Did you find out how much a die is?

 

[Lorenzo lab guy]

How much is that hand fed UDM-300? Did you find out how much a die is?

We are doing a visit to the dealer tomorrow for a demo. We have been told list price is $30,000 for the base unit. Stripper and output conveyor is additional. They said a "typical" die is $175. Dies can vary in cost quite a bit -

 

[dabob]

How do they price the die, just by the square inch or by the cutting/scoring inches???? I can't see complexity entering the equation . . . .

 

[JustinB]

These machines don't actually "crease" paper, they do this 3 blade micro slit thing. That may not look real good on toner. Make sure you check that out as part of your demo.

If they had an option to allow for true creases with creasing matrix adhered to the bottom cylinder I would buy one of these today.

 

[Shawnd]

Creasing? I thought you only used these to cut out the shapes.

 

[Lorenzo lab guy]

These machines don't actually "crease" paper, they do this 3 blade micro slit thing. That may not look real good on toner. Make sure you check that out as part of your demo.

If they had an option to allow for true creases with creasing matrix adhered to the bottom cylinder I would buy one of these today.

Justin B - I saw your post after our demo visit. We have a Duplo DC 645 for creasing and we really plan on using the UD M300 just for die cutting. We were pretty happy with the demo and bought the machine. We will ultimately be working with another supplier for dies so we can't answer everything about that yet. I asked about cost of dies referencing Dabob's comment above but the Duplo salesman couldn't give a detailed answer. He mentioned the dies are machined and that more complex dies take more time to produce, so complexity can affect cost. There are different materials available and some special hardening treatments available as well that affect cost. We bought the unit in combination with two dies, so it is a little bit hard to break out that cost directly. We like the idea of the dealer being responsible for the initial setup including the dies so that we don't get suppliers pointing fingers at each other if something doesn't work. We have a lot of confidence in our Duplo dealer in Cleveland as we have two other Duplo machines. We will order more dies later after we get going with the two dies that we know are going to do some volume with. I don't know if we will try to do some with "bumps" to crease things like boxes. I will say that the sample boxes they had JustinB didn't have toner printing wrapping around the corners, so Isuspect that is an issue as you mention. We can design products to take that into account that potential limitation, just like the bad old days when we struggled with crappy front-to-back registration.

 

[Stickman42]

we use this companys bc slitters http://www.thermotype.com/RotaryDieCutter.html they have been in florida for around 30 years and stand behind their equipment

Was interested in this myself for the same use as the thread starter, but found out that it is $100K+

 

[davarino]

You ought to be able to find a used Miehle vertical for under $2,000.

For the amount of use that you speak of, a V-20 would be quite adequate. Probably would meet your weight requirement, too.

You may wish to consider jobbing the diecutting out to a local trade shop... if my only use for a diecutter was this job I'd be hard pressed to find a reason NOT to outsource it.

 

[Stickman42]

I don't mean to hijack this thread, but look to further the discussion. We're all digital, and would like to bring die cutting and foil stamping in house for short run work. Our current trade vendors are either too expensive or too far away. Kluges, windmills, etc... require a certain skill set, as far as I can tell. The Thermotype NSF machines with their touch screen controls seem to be a good fit, but the price is too high for us. I guess our search for a easy-to-operate combo die cutter/foil stamper that's in the $30-$50K range goes on.

 

[Stickman42]

See above...

 

[Lorenzo lab guy]

You ought to be able to find a used Miehle vertical for under $2,000.

For the amount of use that you speak of, a V-20 would be quite adequate. Probably would meet your weight requirement, too.

You may wish to consider jobbing the diecutting out to a local trade shop... if my only use for a diecutter was this job I'd be hard pressed to find a reason NOT to outsource it.

Davarino,
Jobbing out is not an option for us. We come from the retail photo store world and we expect to have an order ready to ship 2-5 hours after receiving the order. We hit that pretty consistently. We think the Duplo is going to save us about 5-10 hours of labor per week right now over our flatbed steel rule cutter and the main product line for die cutting has been more than doubling each year over the past 3 years. We are in a buying group of 400 other photo shops and we think we will be offering the service to some of those other stores, so we see a pretty short payoff on this machine. Naturally we will add to our captive product range of die cut products because production will become much easier now.

 

[Lorenzo lab guy]

I don't mean to hijack this thread, but look to further the discussion. We're all digital, and would like to bring die cutting and foil stamping in house for short run work. Our current trade vendors are either too expensive or too far away. Kluges, windmills, etc... require a certain skill set, as far as I can tell. The Thermotype NSF machines with their touch screen controls seem to be a good fit, but the price is too high for us. I guess our search for a easy-to-operate combo die cutter/foil stamper that's in the $30-$50K range goes on.

Stickman42,
We use a little digital on-demand foil machine for short runs of very specialized foil jobs. Most operators in these forums would not find it to be productive enough, but in our market of Wedding Invitations and other social stationery jobs it works well for us. And it is digital - so no dies or hot lead needed. Let me know if you are interested and I can provide more info.

 

[Stickman42]

Stickman42,
We use a little digital on-demand foil machine for short runs of very specialized foil jobs. Most operators in these forums would not find it to be productive enough, but in our market of Wedding Invitations and other social stationery jobs it works well for us. And it is digital - so no dies or hot lead needed. Let me know if you are interested and I can provide more info.

Lorenzo - our market is books, and our runs vary from 50 - 2500. My intent is to offer our publishing clients foil and die cutting as an option for their covers. My feeling is that if I offer one service, they'll soon ask for the other. Hence my search for a "combo" machine. On the very short runs, a tabletop hand-fed machine would work. But once we get into 1000+, well, you know... This machine may very well not exist, but thanks to the web and forums like this one, my chances at success increase!