Any feedback on Ricoh?

[Drum]

I have begun working with a small printer that currently has a Canon 3220 he is trying to replace. Because he has a strong relationship with the Ricoh dealer he is looking to replace the Canon with a Ricoh 6500. I have searched the forums here and not seen anything on this equipment. Clicks are running about 10,000 per month. Any advice?

 

[Keith]

Ricoh

Ricoh

Drum,

I am in a similar position. Currently, I also run a C3220 and am in the process of looking fo a replacement. The Ricoh C6000 is at the top of my list. The dealer gave me an excellent price and the click rate is not to bad either. The samples I've seen are really good - unfortunatly they were manufacturer samples and not my own files. Although, they did take my files and some of my paper and printed a couple samples. They looked a lot better than their 5560. My only concern with the machine was its lack of specification for coated. They did print a few dozen two-sided sheets on the coated paper I use (Mohawk 50/10) and it looked great but if I have a problem I know I'll hear, "...well, it's out of spec..." and I'll be paddleless up that shitty creek It is rated for 300gsm but the sales rep did admit that the machine is not going to like running that frequently. In closing, the machine did get an award from Better Buys. I still need to take a closer look at the other machine on my list - KM C451. For now, I will stick with my C3220 and Xante Ilumina.

Keith

 

[Drum]

Hey Keith,
Thanks for the reply and your comments.
How do you like the Xante?

 

[artpost]

I sell the Ricoh and it's a good box, and will perform well. It is rated for coated stock, however there are only two or three that are recommended. I would advise to also take a look at the OKI 3641 MFP, 36ppm and it runs almost any stock, matter of fact, it is the same laser engine as the Xante uses.

Xante claims 502gsm, however this is the same oki engine as the OKI 3641. I had this unit out at a Graphic Arts company for about a week and he loved the unit, matter of fact he bought one.

You will pay more per click for the oki 3641, however the color is awesome and the ability to run many different types of media is far superior to Canon, Ricoh and KM when comparing apples to apples.

Print Shop in a BOX, thats what I call it.

Art

Print4Pay Hotel

 

[Drum]

Thanks Art for taking the time to reply.
That sounds like an excellent suggestion and we will check on the OKI.

 

[artpost]

Drum:

Are you located in the UK or the US?

Art

 

[PineyBob]

I'm not sold on any color product made by Ricoh. Now in fairness I'm highly biased as I sold the boat anchors they made back in the mid/late nineties and the thought of a Print Shop actually installing one frightens me.

I had enough screaming customers to last all of Pennsylvania and New Jersey. Never mind that the owner hosed me on commissions.

 

[sweatyclimber]

I'll admit that I'm biased as well, I've sold KM, Sharp, Xerox for a direct and dealer. I like Canon, Sharp, Xerox, KM (office products). That being the case I would still advise away from Ricoh. Speaking in very general terms.. the strategy they use is to be the lowest price in the market. As all of you know with your own business quality & price generally are mutually exclusive. Xerox attempts to "make" the market, therefore you get generally good stuff with a few bomb's. Canon takes the delerberate stand ie: were largest in the world, we have the money to make the best, what do customers want. Lately however (last 3,4 years) they have been shifting that strategy and so now, you'll see some parts of them that are great... like the amazingly fast embeded print controller, but you'll also see some things that are designed to spin sell... those wont help you any. Sharp while great equipment, has nothing for this market so we'll move on. The last KM. There goal is to be the best value. The achillies heal for them is money. They simply don't have the R&D that Canon and Xerox have. Thus you are seeing nice and relatively good products that take some time to work out the bugs and not a lot of new products that have any type of signifigant improvement.

So the quick version... Why buy the "cheapest"... also if your bid w/ Ricoh isn't... make sure to negotiate because it should be. For quality and price, I would say the KM... It will work fairly good, it will have limited problems or draw backs and the color will be relatively good. The advice of the OKI might be a nice option, its inexpensive and maybe will work. Just make sure that you can afford the CPC.

 

[Drum]

Thanks pineybob and sweatyclimber,
Your advice and feedback is appreciated. I have been in printing a long time but am new to the digital printing world so I've got a lot of catching up to do. I found the market overview very interesting.

 

[digitalprintpro]

Hello, I have worked for both Konica direct and IKON (Ricoh and Canon Equipment) and have been a specialist supporting the commercial printing world for quite some time. Having everyday field experience with all of these manufactures in the digital color world it is my honest opinion that the Konica 6500/5500 are hard to beat for quality/vs/price point. The Konica 6500 has a nice set of features, provides very sellable output on a large range of stocks, has decent registration and if you have volumes between 10,000 and 50,000 sheets per month it will run very well. The Ricoh color equipment just doesn't stack up (even the new so called production C900 is very weak from what I have seen in the field). The Canon mid volume equipment worth looking at is really only the C1 at this point, and though the output can be exceptional from that product, the system price, operating cost and just darn slowness of the equipment makes it hard to like once its in the field.

 

[Jaysee80]

Ricoh C900

Ricoh C900

Based off Hitachi engineering. Running easily 200k color per month. 90 ppm up to 300gsm. Fiery comes loaded. Blows the KM out of the water hands down. Run 110lb cover on your KM and see what type of out put it gives you. SLOW!!!!!!!!

 

[xit791]

Also looking to uprade my Canon 3220...

I was looking into the Ricoh when a rep from IKON (now owned by Ricoh) mentioned a machine called a CPP 560 and/or BPP 560. It is supposedly manufactured by Konica for IKON.

The print for pay rep raves about (prob a better commish?).

Has anybody heard anything about this machine?

 

[PineyBob]

In the past, IKON used to have heavy heavy incentives on their branded products like the ones you suggest.

Now that Ricoh has taken ownership I would guess that they would want those K-M products out of the warehouse sooner rather then later.

They are fine products and you'd be well served. Service would be my only concern as the equipment ages.

 

[Jaysee80]

IKON KM Gear

IKON KM Gear

The KM gear is good for light weight lifting. It slows down terribly for thicker stock. And after about two years of moderate use 50-100K per month it is on the fritz.

 

[Craig]

The KM gear is good for light weight lifting. It slows down terribly for thicker stock. And after about two years of moderate use 50-100K per month it is on the fritz.

Just as I suspected from the start, even though Random would never admit to it, Great for text weight, a tank on cover weight though.

 

[lfelton]

Just as I suspected from the start, even though Random would never admit to it, Great for text weight, a tank on cover weight though.

And why exactly do you believe that what Jaysee80 says is gospel?

Per his profile, he works for "Production Printing Business Group". Could it be that he works for this "Production Printing Business Group":-

Production Printing Business Group

Come on Craig - you know better!

Reps who slag off other manufacturers bore me and are complete time wasters. If their kit is great, then tell me why, I'm interested. I'm just not interested in BS knocking of other products as a sales tactic.

Why don't we have simple new rule: if you slag off a product in any way shape or form, you start off the post with either "I own & operate this machine and it sucks because..." -OR- "I am a total and utter BS artist and I'd like to slag off this machine that I know next to nothing about because..."

I think that would work.

At least Random has the cojones to state who he works for in his sig.

 

[UberTech]

I don't think that c900 and c6500 are a direct comparison some how. The extra 25 sheets a minute sort of gives that away. Word around the camp fire is KM were going to release there 80 pager until this monstrosity came out.

The proper comparison here is the Canon 6000, Xerox 5000 and KM6501.

 

[Craig]

And why exactly do you believe that what Jaysee80 says is gospel?

Per his profile, he works for "Production Printing Business Group". Could it be that he works for this "Production Printing Business Group":-

Production Printing Business Group

Come on Craig - you know better!

Reps who slag off other manufacturers bore me and are complete time wasters. If their kit is great, then tell me why, I'm interested. I'm just not interested in BS knocking of other products as a sales tactic.

Why don't we have simple new rule: if you slag off a product in any way shape or form, you start off the post with either "I own & operate this machine and it sucks because..." -OR- "I am a total and utter BS artist and I'd like to slag off this machine that I know next to nothing about because..."

I think that would work.

At least Random has the cojones to state who he works for in his sig.

Your right, maybe I should have check his profile before replying. But should you have to? It still doesn't change my opinions on the 6500/01 though.

I agree with the topic header... how many will have the stones to do it?

 

[Keith]

Xante

Xante

Drum, sorry it took me so long to reply. I came down with a stomach vitus and then it got hectic at my shop. You asked me about my Xante. And I'd have to sum it up in a couple of sentences: If you're just starting out, it is cheap to buy (affordable for any budget) and will do what machines twice it's cost can do (and more considering I run a lot of 326gsm and it's rated for 427gsm- considerably more than any other machine on the market). BUUUUT, make sure you have a lot of cash because it costs a lot to run. I cry everytime a heavy coverage job comes in. That's why I am considering the Oki CX3641. Unlike Xante it would have a service contract and the dealer can deal with averaging of consumables. But baing able to digitally print business cards on 120lb cover is priceless (actually, about $90/M ). I have good and bad stories about it (don't we all?) but I am also considering buying another one- the 502 (gsm)! Mainly, because, I miscalculated what my average click count per month is; it's only 7000. Far below the minimum that I would feel comfortable at to buy even a Xerox 242!

So, as long as you stay away from low profit commodity work like flyers and brochures, it's great. I print a lot of invitations (120lb Park Avenue panel card) with envelopes on mine. And, surprisingly, I do a lot of business cards. Feel free to ask me anymore questions about the Ilumina

Keith

 

[artpost]

I installed the oki 3641 at a Graphic Artist here in NJ the other day. He immediatley put in 502 gsm through the by-pass and it ran like a champ.

Now here's a thought from someone with 29 years in the business. The Illumina and the Oki are the same print engine. The Illumina supplies are twice the cost of the oki 3641 and the Illumina is rated for 502 gsm.

Now, my belief is that they are the same (except for efi on the oki), oki will not rate the 3641 for thick stock because they many have an agreement with Xante (these are my thoughts and may not be true). Anyway the guy loves his new oki for now.....