Anyone running Toyo inks on a waterless press??

[Disappointed]

Looking for help again, we have finally had to resort to using Toyo Aqualess MZ inks on our 52Di press as all other brands have now failed through one reason or another

We have managed to get acceptable results on coated and satin coated stocks but it refuses to run on uncoated stock - we get terrible blotchy or patchy print on the cyan and to a much lesser extent on magenta.

It seems there are no reducers compatible with these inks, we have tried softer blankets and different press temperatures to no effect.

The suppliers have managed to reproduce the effect which is good but getting a resolution is taking too long and jobs are piling up.

Any suggestions, anyone else suffering the woes of waterless print??

 

[Risu]

Hi, I do but in QMDI. Wrong oscilator timing can cause odd issues. Check timings.

 

[Disappointed]

timings are fixed on this press, and this effect is from grip to tail evenly.

 

[Risu]

Probably you have checked roller pressure to plate already. If you open ink keys just a little bit more, what will happen then.

 

[Disappointed]

Yes, pressures are spot-on, both stripe and nip.

These are process jobs so more ink is not an option.

 

[Cornishpastythighs]

Have you messed around trying different packings under the blanket, Paper/plastic? I see you say you have tried different types of blankets.

 

[jonteo]

We had similar problems until we switched to LZ (low tack) series. Something to do with the temperature and humidity on the west coast, even in a controlled press room.

 

[Disappointed]

We have tried hard packing and a soft underblanket, no change.

Changing to LZ would be a PITA and very wasteful as we run mixed stocks all the time and cannot run LZ on coated stocks. This would mean continuously having to change inks.

All the other brands we have tried have worked well on different stocks, but eventually failed on other faults beyond our control.

The best was an ink by Huber/Hostman Steinberg, this ran well for three years but suddenly started toning after a few hours running, only reason was proven as ink or plates - neither manufacturer would admit to any alteration so we had no choice but to dump it.

 

[moonprint]

toyo is one of the best waterless inks out there

I have run them for over 20 years

if you have problems contact jack in toyo technical help.

I know they offer a reducer

 

[Disappointed]

toyo is one of the best waterless inks out there

I have run them for over 20 years

if you have problems contact jack in toyo technical help.

I know they offer a reducer

Thanks, have you got a location?

I have tried Toyo Europe but so far have found them abrupt in their single response to my various requests, to the point of being rude in fact, a most unhelpful company.

I merely asked three times for a UK supplier and after two weeks I got a single line reply of a company name, no phone number, email, address, anything - disgusting behaviour for a large company i feel.

And yes I know Presstek are a TOYO supplier but they have introduced a levy on all deliveries that we are not happy about so were looking to get our supplies elsewhere.

BTW, the company that TOYO offered as a supplier refused to help "because presstek were a supplier" so it seems we are being forced to buy our inks from one supplier only, at any cost!!

TBH I'm pretty fed up with this machine at present, it's good when it works but when you hit a snag you're on your own it seems. I have jobs piling up now for uncoated stock which we cannot run

 

[D Ink Man]

This is a problem that can be fixed with ink. Reducing the TOYO inks with any type of cut will run the risk of TONING, the primary issue you cannot afford to have in waterless printing. And yes, TOYO waterless are among the best offerings on the market.

To change things up I would suggest going to a totally different series just to see what results you will realize. It is not uncommon for a Heidey DI press to evolve to a mish mosh (for lack of a better term) process series of different branded products to reach acceptable print accord.

Braden Suthpin out of Cleveland, Ohio makes a dedicated process series, DI Waterless Series. I would suggest getting small quantities of each for a no charge trial. 1 lb. of each should be enough to gain some appreciation. Check their website.

When you go to press with either the TOYO or the BS ink, experiment with varying temperatures. Reach the point where toning is beginning to appear and then decrease your unit temperature just to the point of eliminating the toning. The purpose of this move is to not only print clean, but to allow the DI inks to remain at their softest viscosity point that breeds the best achievable transfer. This transfer will hence result in the best smoothness of lay, particularly on the uncoated offset stocks that bring you issue.

Hope this will help your endeavor.

D Ink Man

 

[Disappointed]

Thanks D.

Don't forget we are in the UK though, we have a stock of ALL DI inks available here, some work for part of the day then tone, others do not work at all, some are so tacky they rip the sheet apart, there is VERY little choice over here.

We have tried temps from lowest to max but makes no odds, to make matters worse, today it did not do it but we have had to stop again because the RIP is playing up now.

If I had my choice over again, I would never buy Di or waterless.

 

[Risu]

And there is chiller like in QMDI, and filled with water enought?

 

[Disappointed]

yes, chiller working fine, pressures good, temps read ok.

 

[D Ink Man]

I think BS would be willing to ship overseas.

They are a hungry for customer ink company, particularly offset of any kind.

 

[erictoray]

Disappointed,
If you are in the UK why don't you give the folks at Classic Colours a call and they can get you going in the right direction.
IMHO, they make excellent waterless ink series for papers and plastics and offer excellent after sales support.
Check them out at 44 118 931 1301

Erictoray

 

[Disappointed]

Tried them, got a set here, didnt work too well. They could not even tell me the correct running temps which gave me no confidence either.

 

[D Ink Man]

Tried them, got a set here, didnt work too well. They could not even tell me the correct running temps which gave me no confidence either.

I can believe that Disappointed. I had forgotten they had lost their best technical person some time ago. But you could check with Mr. Castillo at BSI. He is very much in the know and should be able to pull up some technical reports done on a DI press, practically identical to yours.

D

 

[Dan Roll]

But waterless was supposed to solve all these problems!!!!!!

 

[Dan Roll]

Sorry, I couldn't resist......