Anyone using ink optimization in their worklflow?

[gordo]

Now that the IPA ink optimization roundup is published the value in terms of reducing ink usage and stabilizing color for the printer seems confirmed. But is anyone actually using it in their production? Care to share your experience?

best, gordon p

 

[Deleted member 16349]

Now that the IPA ink optimization roundup is published the value in terms of reducing ink usage and stabilizing color for the printer seems confirmed. But is anyone actually using it in their production? Care to share your experience?

best, gordon p

I noticed in the procedure for this test that they were using PressPerCent software as a tool to help evaluate ink usage. Not sure if they confirmed results on press but if they only used that software, there could be misleading results.

PressPerCent is relatively simple and errors in consumption of ink can be as high as 40% in some situations. Ink usage is NOT directly related to image area of the plate. PressPerCent which uses image area for the calculation would tend to over estimate the ink usage depending on the separation conditions.

If they compared relative amounts between the products, I guess that would be of some value.

 

[gordo]

@Erik. That's not the question. The question is about whether anyone is actually using a reseparation system in production and what their experience is.

gordon p

 

[mattbeals]

I know of a few shops that do, one is publisher though. Not sure anyone of them want to say anything though. I can check and see. Were you wanting public feedback or private feedback?

 

[gordo]

I know of a few shops that do, one is publisher though. Not sure anyone of them want to say anything though. I can check and see. Were you wanting public feedback or private feedback?

Public...but private would be good if public is not in the cards.

I'm trying to get a sense as to whether this technology is being broadly adopted. The ROIs are great. It seems a no brainer, but somehow I get the feeling that it's not being used.

best, gordon p

 

[Deleted member 16349]

@Erik. That's not the question. The question is about whether anyone is actually using a reseparation system in production and what their experience is.

gordon p

Sorry, you are right.

I hope the response to their experience with these software will include how they determined improvements. I am quite sure these software products will reduce ink consumption but how would a printer put a number to it.

In your question you ask for their experience. Is there something specific that you are interested in? Is it the ink consumption issue, the reduced variation on the run, or the colour reproduction issue or all of the above?

 

[Prepper]

Not exactly but close?

Not exactly but close?

Gordo,

We don't use ink optimization software per se, but we do use it in that we print with a profile made from Gracol datasets using MaxK (high GCR) in Profilemaker. That being said, we are different than most in that we create all our own files here in house and work exclusively in RGB and I get to convert them to cmyk here in prepress. If I were receiving cmyk files I would definitely want to use something to convert them to a high GCR profile (device links?) or ink optimization software. Don't know how we'd measure it in pounds of ink saved but the percentages from a straight profile to one using MaxK is quite a bit less cmy and more K. I would have to say the main reason would be for the stability on press.

Are we getting the best possible color (highest saturation\cleanest primaries, etc) we can? Don't know that, but I do know its a lot better than when we were printing to SWOP 4-5 years ago. Increased density to meet G7 specs and we have better color saturation (brighter colors) and very stable on press. I do not see color shifting during the run near as much as we used to sometimes. G7, MaxK but also a scanning densitometer addition has something to do with that also I would imagine.

Maybe not exactly what you were asking about but in the ballpark maybe?

Terry

 

[gordo]

No, not even close

No, not even close

I would hope that most printers know the benefits of re-separating incoming files by now. However it does not appear that it's being adopted to any great extent. But maybe it is being adopted but users aren't or don't want to talk about it. Or maybe users just don't participate in this forum.

best, gordon p

 

[Kristian]

We have had GMG InkOptimizer on site for nearly 2 years now and it's great. Just a simple drag-and-drop process for each file.

Difficult to comment on exact ink savings as our litho department data capture is limited to say the least. However, we can definitely comment on much better stability and quicker drying time due to less ink coverage. Some jobs have even had a separation removed completely.

For a company that spends over £1million a year on ink, it's a no brainer like you say Gordo. As well as the ink, the press benefits alone make it well worthwhile.

Kristian

 

[gordo]

Thanks for responding Kristian.
What market segment are you in? (newspaper, magazine, etc.)
Also, are your customers aware that you are reseparating their files?

best, gordon p

 

[Kristian]

Thanks for responding Kristian.
What market segment are you in? (newspaper, magazine, etc.)
Also, are your customers aware that you are reseparating their files?

best, gordon p

We are packaging printers so we probably don't get the best usage in terms of ink savings as a lot of our work is spot colours. However, as said before, we based ours on press time savings.

Customers are aware that we have the ability to change their artwork to assist with neutral gray areas and avoid ink build up in shadow areas. We decided that was enough information for them.

 

[cielab]

We have been using GMG InkOptimizer with great success for a few years in ink savings and quicker make readies. We continue to struggle with our workflow with Prinergy using Insite as it relates to GMG. PDF files have to leave the Prinergy workflow to be processed by GMG. We map the files back to their correct job folders by utilizing a stringent file naming convention. The file leaving the workflow causes Prinergy to report that the file failed to the user when in fact it will appear as a refined PDF later. It works as a "flow" and is automated but it eliminates all of the customers abilities to preflight their own files. Files will also fail if the name is not as we request.

Edit: We are a heat set web publication printer.

 

[mglouis]

Gordo,

Every page we print has been reseparated. The pdf proofs we use for approval have been processed so we are candid about it. We print sheetfed and web. Normalized separations are wonderful thing. One thing we appreciate that many may not is to intentionally convert pure black channels into rich black. We can still match the appearance of grayscale in terms of luminosity but with significantly less print mottle. Ink savings was not our motivation behind implementation. We adopted it to custom tailor TAC and GCR on our press forms.

Matt Louis

 

[csawatzki]

Ink Savings

Ink Savings

We have been running a demo of CGS solution in one of our plants for the last 3 months. Good results.

We are now testing Alwan in two, and will see how they do.

Cory Sawatzki

 

[guncis]

Hi, Im testing this with some customers using PuzzleFlow.com solutions. Positioning this mainly as TIL reducing tool to f.e 300, but i test some my home created profiles with ink saving capabilities So far looks good, but there is chicken ad egg problem - how to separate it 1. from same coloristic as destination profile and ignoring built in profiles or 2. use original profile of job or individual images and convert to optimized printing machine/paper profiled.
Ok, i have my own explanation for this - if you are printer - use 1, but if creative (or all customers know what is profile and what to do with this ) use 2.
So far havent look on saving numbers (cause mainly runs are short), but stability of print was improved.
Another chicken and egg question - convert everything or just images. Im converting everything, otherwise we can get problems with images and vectors stitching areas. Also there are some "interesting jobs" where black areas was made as all colors 100%
I've noticed some problematic areas as well. Some of them - logo colors, shadows, images with transparency (almost all is ok, but could be some errors), fragmented images ... so it could be good for longer runs check results.

 

[roger]

Hi Gordo,

We're a Prinergy shop and for the past month we've been processing ALL jobs through an ink optimizing (image harmonizing) devicelink profile that's being applied at the plating step. We can find no reason to not run with it.

Regards,
Roger Schutte
J.S.McCarthy Printers

 

[dimitri]

Gordo,

For the past year, year and a half, we are processing files (vector or bitmap) through a device link workflow, applying the GRACOL2006 ICC profile with either medium or heavy GCR settings depending on the job and when not restricted by the customer.

There has been a significant reduction in ink consumption, even of the black ink, which makes me think that most of the ink savings come from faster makereadies and less waste due to the homogenization of the files rather than actual GCR (black ink consumption should have increased too if that was the case). Regardless, the software reports anywhere from 4% to 25% ink savings depending on the image content.

We have experienced some problems when we reseparated images with heavy GCR settings and we tried to match established color OKs of previous years separated without GCR. Even if the color between the GCR'd and non-GCR'd image did not shift at all on the proof, the heavy addition of black on press didn't leave room for adjustment. These problems were image dependant (dark browns for example).

A couple of times, we have experienced problems on very demanding color matches, in particular when trying to match a given spot color through a CMYK build, where the software adjusted the CMYK values and we lost the color match.

 

[tmiller_iluvprinting]

Any Rampage InkDrop users out there that would like to weigh in?
Regards,
Todd

 

[Helene]

Truth or Consequences: Ink Optimization

Truth or Consequences: Ink Optimization

I'm just getting a handle on this, but I understand enough to know that it's dangerous to consider ink savings an independent variable in your production workflow. Ink savings is influenced by several factors, and you will waste good time and money if you don't take a little time to hear what they are.

To that end, I've started writing this work-in-progress with the guidance of two pretty intelligent gentlemen: Elie Khoury of Alwan Color Expertise and Dave Hunter of Pilot Marketing.

Let your comments RIP (ahem....) -- a little back and forth will be invigorating and healthy for all of us.

All best,
Helene Smith, HSPR
for Pilot Marketing
1 321 388 6511
[email protected]

 

[gordo]

I'm just getting a handle on this, but I understand enough to know that it's dangerous to consider ink savings an independent variable in your production workflow.

The paper seems to use "straw men" arguments. I don't think that anyone is looking at ink optimization only from an ink savings point of view. Ad I don't think that is the only benefit that vendors focus on. It's just that the ink savings and maintenance of color appearance integrity are the easiest to quantify for ROI purposes.

best, gordon p