Best Digital Printer today

[Craig]

2 not 4 KM6500'S will compete on most jobs not all. But at a fraction of the cost, who cares what name it wears. If you do all fine art prints on textured(rough) uncoated, then the iGen has an edge. But, for most everyday print for Profit, 2x KM6500's work just fine.

How do those KM's handle 14 x 22 inch sheets and 130lb cover? I don't give a crap about whether it's made by Xerox or not, it could be a KM iGen for what it's worth. The 6501 will not be able to handle the same media or volume as an iGen, Nexpress or Indigo. It's like saying 4 Smart Cars are the same as 1 McLaren F1!!

 

[billyinlasvegas]

You can't beat the productivity of the iGen!! I've upgraded from a DC5000 to an iGen4 and it's like night and day.

Get the iGen3, but if you can afford it get the iGen4 it's a lot simpler to maintain.

 

[Steve_S]

Everyone is ignoring the volume issue, building mods, and the boat anchor Xerox will chain to his neck.

I can give you an eye-opening list of printers in our region who have gone under within 12 mos. of an iGen install. I don't care about the brand either. The issue I have is that they are selling people who have no business owning an iGen on these and then could give a hoot if your doors get chained when you go under. It is unethical. Shut the ego down and buy whatever machine you can feed.

Just my $0.02

 

[simpleprint]

Everyone is ignoring the volume issue, building mods, and the boat anchor Xerox will chain to his neck.

I can give you an eye-opening list of printers in our region who have gone under within 12 mos. of an iGen install. I don't care about the brand either. The issue I have is that they are selling people who have no business owning an iGen on these and then could give a hoot if your doors get chained when you go under. It is unethical. Shut the ego down and buy whatever machine you can feed.

Just my $0.02

Is it possible that the Economic Climate factored into any of that at all?

 

[Craig]

Everyone is ignoring the volume issue, building mods, and the boat anchor Xerox will chain to his neck.

I can give you an eye-opening list of printers in our region who have gone under within 12 mos. of an iGen install. I don't care about the brand either. The issue I have is that they are selling people who have no business owning an iGen on these and then could give a hoot if your doors get chained when you go under. It is unethical. Shut the ego down and buy whatever machine you can feed.

Just my $0.02

Agree 100%, that is why you don't get an iGen unless you have the volume.

 

[Steve_S]

Is it possible that the Economic Climate factored into any of that at all?

No - some of these occurred before the crash.

 

[Tuono]

The Canon 7000VP will give you the most offset like quality thanks to it's gloss optimization technology, yes even better than the iGen. The C900 and KM 6501 are really high speed digital copiers, not digital presses like the Canon and iGen. The Xerox5000AP and 8000AP can be considered digital presses, but IMO, their prints are way to glossy compared to the others. Like I said in another thread, the 700 has better looking prints, but is also a high speed digital copier. It only weighs 700 lbs, compared to the 7000VP's 2600+ lbs. I don't see how something that light can take the pounding of 200K plus prints a month without having major issues.

That being said, if you have the volume and run "un-common" stocks, then the iGen would be a good choice. If your not running anything too un-common, then you could buy two 7000VP's for the price of one iGen.

My $0.02

 

[lfelton]

I never have got this "it isn't a proper press" thing. My new press weighs 27 tonnes and can easily print the equivalent of 200K SRA3s a SHIFT. Does that make your Canon "not a proper press"? I think the question is irrelevant. Surely the bottom line is: does it make you a good ROI by reliably providing product that your customers want?

 

[hansman]

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C900 a lightweight?

C900 a lightweight?

The Canon 7000VP will give you the most offset like quality thanks to it's gloss optimization technology, yes even better than the iGen. The C900 and KM 6501 are really high speed digital copiers, not digital presses like the Canon and iGen. The Xerox5000AP and 8000AP can be considered digital presses, but IMO, their prints are way to glossy compared to the others. Like I said in another thread, the 700 has better looking prints, but is also a high speed digital copier. It only weighs 700 lbs, compared to the 7000VP's 2600+ lbs. I don't see how something that light can take the pounding of 200K plus prints a month without having major issues.

That being said, if you have the volume and run "un-common" stocks, then the iGen would be a good choice. If your not running anything too un-common, then you could buy two 7000VP's for the price of one iGen.

My $0.02

The Ricoh C900 mainframe (w/o input or output pieces) weighs in at 1500lb. Not exactly a lightweight. At the pricepoint it comes in at it's hard to ignore as you consider your options. Like many here have said, it's impossible to say which system is *best* until you weigh (no pun intended) all your requirements against a printer's capabilities and your customer's requirement. The question is, "Can I sell it, and still make a profit?", and not just on how well you and your sales rep get along.

 

[JMSDP]

We have a Canon 6000vp. I agree that the quality is very good. The reliability is a disaster. We also have two Xerox Docucolors. While the quality of print is not quite as good, the performance is better. My volume is not huge - @ 65,000 per month - I am down 8-10 times per month, often for more than 1 day. It is October 9th and I have had 7 service calls on the 6000 already this month. In September, I had 11, 10 in August. . .

 

[Steve_S]

We have a Canon 6000vp. I agree that the quality is very good. The reliability is a disaster. We also have two Xerox Docucolors. While the quality of print is not quite as good, the performance is better. My volume is not huge - @ 65,000 per month - I am down 8-10 times per month, often for more than 1 day. It is October 9th and I have had 7 service calls on the 6000 already this month. In September, I had 11, 10 in August. . .

OUCH

BTW, how can you support 3 machines on 65k clicks?

 

[JMSDP]

The stats were just for the Canon 6000vp. We put @ 65k impressions on the Canon and @40k each on the Xerox boxes.

I should point out that the number of service calls per month that I quoted was also just on the Canon.

 

[Steve_S]

The stats were just for the Canon 6000vp. We put @ 65k impressions on the Canon and @40k each on the Xerox boxes.

I should point out that the number of service calls per month that I quoted was also just on the Canon.

Makes more sense

The OUCH was for the service calls - that routine sucks the life out of you.

 

[UberTech]

Everyone is ignoring the volume issue, building mods, and the boat anchor Xerox will chain to his neck.

I can give you an eye-opening list of printers in our region who have gone under within 12 mos. of an iGen install. I don't care about the brand either. The issue I have is that they are selling people who have no business owning an iGen on these and then could give a hoot if your doors get chained when you go under. It is unethical. Shut the ego down and buy whatever machine you can feed.

Just my $0.02

This sounds like a fairly common story world wide. I have heard of more business go under because of an i-gen than succeed. I think there is a very specific market for that machine but the sales glory and speel seems to motivate to sell to anyone. I think it has been said before, these machines need atleast 500k a month to be worth while, if your determined to go xerox then get an 8000 or something. The Capitol on one these would be enough to bring down the biggest of players. In the infamouse words of flava flave Dont beleave the hype

 

[Steve_S]

...and that is NOT anti-Xerox propaganda, that is flat out keeping your head above water and surviving in business. We saw the same type of thing in our region with some Indigo's. That type of gear has a huge overhead nut to crack before you can really make any money. Your salesperson from any vendor is trying to not let you focus on that. The days of buying what you "hope to fill up" are mostly gone.

 

[Craig]

I almost couldn't stop laughing when my Xerox rep can in and started telling me how they were "justifying" iGen installs with a volume of only 40,000/month!!!!!!

 

[Tuono]

We have a Canon 6000vp. I agree that the quality is very good. The reliability is a disaster. We also have two Xerox Docucolors. While the quality of print is not quite as good, the performance is better. My volume is not huge - @ 65,000 per month - I am down 8-10 times per month, often for more than 1 day. It is October 9th and I have had 7 service calls on the 6000 already this month. In September, I had 11, 10 in August. . .

Wow, that sucks. How long have you had it?

 

[mariocanta]

I have a great opportunity to upgrade my color printing equipment. My current machines are coming off lease. They are a Xerox 2060 and a Doc 12, which we have had for almost 8 years. We have gotten every dime out of the 2060, putting between 60,000 and 100,000 clicks per month for the entire period. These are balanced fairly evenly between letter and 11x17/12x18 and also between paper and card up to 100lb hammermill color copy cover and 100lb utopia c1s and c2s, and single-sided 110lb classic crest. The Doc12 is a great but slow back-up which we put 8,000 - 10,000 clicks per month.

Our options: Xerox 5000AP/Xerox 700 or Xerox 7000AP/Xerox 700 or Canon 7000VP/Canon 6000 or Xerox iGen4-110/Xerox 700 or Xerox iGen 3-90/Xerox 700.

The iGen3-90 option has been offered as a slightly used demo unit at an incredible price, slightly below the Xerox 5000AP/700 option. But the size of the machine scares me (it can fit easily - it's just a lot of square footage). We are also considering giving up our docutech and putting some of our b&w volume onto the iGen.

So the question is - if I can get an iGen3-90 for the same price as a 5000AP do I do it? And does anyone have an opinion of the Canon 7000VP or 6000? Canon's direct sales arm would be my vendor and they seem eager to serve the print-for-pay community all of a sudden.

My real exeprience with canon:

I have the Canon 6000 (Canon 6000 and canon 7000 are the some machine, the only difference it is the number of pages for minute)
I have the Canon C6000 (no VP), before I had the Xerox 250
This printer, for quality it is the best, much better then Xerox, even IGEN4
The big, big, big problem is the affidability of the machine.
In 2 years, the technician came almost 200 times.
If I print today 5.000/10.000 pages the day after I have to call the Canon men.
What I do now, is to call the technician even if the printer does not give error, becouse I am sure the day after I get the error.
I did almost 2.000.000 copy, but I can't plane a serious work, because in the morning when I start the machine I do not know if IT IS OK or I get the error number ##### ## ## and I have to call the technician.
It is not a problem of technician, the problem is the printer. This model (6000 and 7000) have structural problem, and the assistance cost a lot of money to the company that make assistance, and they are tired to come every 3/4 day to assist you
I am giving the hot potato to my layer, and it is starting a case against Canon
I pay the machine 115,000.00 Euros
Mario

 

[himani365]

Km 6501

Km 6501

Does anyone knows how much is KM 6501 is? i am looking for price...any idea? much appreciated.