Bring Your Popcorn - Landa's Coming

gordo

Well-known member
Perhaps Landa could take a page out of the Creo playbook...at Drupa '95, at the last demo of the show, Michael Laberge was ensconced in the demo CtP unit and produced a bottle of beer rather than an exposed plate to the delivery unit.

"Big things have small beginnings"
 

Green Printer

Registered Users
If blankets only last one week. I will apply for the rights to market and sell the Consumables. Cha Ching$$$$$ I will have to open a numbered Swiss bank account to handle all the money from Blanket purchases.

Have you ever seen a press that didn't have a blanket smash. At least on an offset press you usually have to change one or 2 blankets. The nano press will require changing a blanket that is about 20 feet long.
 

D Ink Man

Well-known member
Have you ever seen a press that didn't have a blanket smash. At least on an offset press you usually have to change one or 2 blankets. The nano press will require changing a blanket that is about 20 feet long.

That's enough to keep your tootsies warm in the winter.
 
D

Deleted member 16349

Guest
Aqazi, here is another informative UK site that discusses the Landa presses.

http://www.printbusiness.co.uk/news/Landa-promises-deliveries-in-2017-/103218/

They also comment on the delay but also add that the blanket life is expected to be one week. Interesting.

Also look at difference in how the UK publications discuss this topic and how WTT presents it. The UK versions go into some detail and have some interesting comments about the negative issues. The WTT postings are mostly press releases with no critical thinking about the product. It is the reluctance of some of the North American print publications to say anything negative, that ensures that the general industry readers are not going to get the in depth views needed, related to some of the issues in the printing industry. Cheerleaders instead of journalists.

Again another UK site with an article today on the Landa press.

http://www.printbusiness.co.uk/news/Landaand39;s-countdown-clock-is-ticking-away/103305/

It is interesting to try and read between the lines and imagine what the real situation is.

I have no idea if this will be eventually a success or a commercial and technical disaster but it is clear that it has been a tough development journey. I sympathize with all in the Landa development group.

It also pisses me off, since I have failed for so many years, to get people interested in the critical problem in offset that needs to be solved. Just sour grapes on my part. :)
 

Alois Senefelder

Well-known member
Gentlemen,


"Ah all things come to those who wait ( I say these words to make me glad)

But something answers soft and sad, they come, but often too late "


Alois
 

AP90

Well-known member
I'm pretty curious as to what the final cost per sheet is going to be. To me it still seems like the problem all digital printers face on longer runs is that the last sheet cost the same as the first. I'm not so are this will be an alternative to offset as much as it will just compete on longer runs. Say 10,000 sheets vs the 1-2k digital competes with now.
 

kansasquaker

Well-known member
I'm pretty curious as to what the final cost per sheet is going to be.

Yes me too! They always talk about speed and quality, but never mention the consumable cost. Digital will not make a significant dent in the volume of offset litho until they get the consumable cost down to something close to offset.

I was told the cost for a 23x39 with moderate coverage on the Fuji J press is about $0.07 to $0.10 per sheet. On an offset press that number is less than $0.01. So at 13000 sph that means you'd be spending an extra $800 per hour in consumables. [ (0.07-.008)*13000 ]. That swamps any other factor in the cost equation. Heck, that's even a multiple of the depreciation cost of the press.
 

noelward

Well-known member
Never mind the facts. Just go with opinion.
D Ink Man... will you be at drupa, or are you running off rumors?

I don't know how much of Landa's show is real but it deserves an objective look, just like all the other technology at drupa or any show.
 
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gordo

Well-known member
Never mind the facts. Just go with opinion.
D Ink Man... will you be at drupa, or are you running off rumors?

I don't know how much of Landa's show is real but it deserves an objective look, just like all the other technology at drupa or any show.


There are a few aspects of Landa's technology that I haven't seen discussed ( I tried to find out from the Landa corp but didn't get an answer). Perhaps this is something you either know or could find out at drupa.

1 - What happens when nano ink printed materiel goes into the recycling stream? Can it be de inked along with the other printed materiel?
2 - Nano sized materials can enter the body through the skin. How toxic are the nano particles used? Will specialized handling of the inks be required by the press operator (e.g. hazmat type suits/breathing filters, etc)?
 

Green Printer

Registered Users
Has anyone seen the cost to use the nanograph presses? What does it cost per sheet? How long with the transfer belt last? It probably is possible to smash the transfer belt like it happens with an offset blanket.
 
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gordo

Well-known member
There's also this interesting discussion on WTT about Landa's overall print quality before and at drupa.
http://whattheythink.com/video/81096-frank-gives-overview-landa-drupa-2016/#comment-9262

The discussion exemplifies one of the problems with today's graphic arts reporting - parroting vendor claims. I just posted a response:

I'm with Chris Lynn on this one. It's fine to hear subjective opinions on the Landa presses - however - they represent a printing technology which can be evaluated objectively. For example:
An ICC profile would show how its gamut compares with that of GRACoL. The profile could easily be compared with Pantones spot color library to see the volume of colors in, or out of gamut.
What was the registration like across the sheet and sheet to sheet.
What halftone screening type and frequency used? Were there samples of Claimed FM capability?
Were artifacts/issues consistent sheet to sheet or did they appear randomly.
How was grey balance? Did it remain cinsistent through the run? Was color affected by inline ink usage?
Was the same image content printed on different substrates? How did they compare? Were direct comparisons made between the same images printed offset vs Landa? Were any sheets rubbed to get a sense of rub resistance?
Etc., etc,...
 
D

Deleted member 16349

Guest
eme
The discussion exemplifies one of the problems with today's graphic arts reporting - parroting vendor claims. I just posted a response:

I'm with Chris Lynn on this one. It's fine to hear subjective opinions on the Landa presses - however - they represent a printing technology which can be evaluated objectively. For example:
An ICC profile would show how its gamut compares with that of GRACoL. The profile could easily be compared with Pantones spot color library to see the volume of colors in, or out of gamut.
What was the registration like across the sheet and sheet to sheet.
What halftone screening type and frequency used? Were there samples of Claimed FM capability?
Were artifacts/issues consistent sheet to sheet or did they appear randomly.
How was grey balance? Did it remain cinsistent through the run? Was color affected by inline ink usage?
Was the same image content printed on different substrates? How did they compare? Were direct comparisons made between the same images printed offset vs Landa? Were any sheets rubbed to get a sense of rub resistance?
Etc., etc,...

Some of the reporting might be by people who can evaluate print but I would say most of these people are not qualified to determine the future. To say that the market will decide is clearly a cop out. No use taking anything they say, seriously. It is just talk. But that is what most journalism is in this and other industries.

From what I have read, for what it is worth, the quality of the Landa print is not perfect and that Indigo's print is still better. Is Indigo better than offset? Not sure about that but if the Landa print quality can at least not match or surpass Indigo, I think it will be a problem.

In trying to develop innovative technology, one can be 95% there but one still does not know if it is possible to get that final 5%. This is how I see the situation. Landa will work hard to reach that final, quality, capacity, reliability, cost etc. goals by the beginning of next year. Will it happen, I have no idea. Until then, it is NOT a product.

Remember when many of the journalists and experts though DI was the next big thing and all presses were going to have it in the future. Didn't quite happen that way. :)
 

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