Buying first offset machine

[Pitersen]

Guys,

I'm preparing to buy my first offset machine and this scares me to death. I have no experience whatsoever with offset. The last time I've prepared films for offset printing was in 1998.
I'm looking to buy something like Ryobi 3304, 4 colour.
My question is, is there any book which will teach you how to use it? I know it sounds lame, but in other hand I'm not a moron. I have been outsourcing all big jobs for offset for long time, my design files never came back.
I willing to buy the machine and give myself 3 to 6 months to learn how to use it. What is the best,
place to start looking for information once the machine is installed?
Regards,
Peter

 

[Cornishpastythighs]

Are you buying new or used? If you purchase a new machine from a reputable dealer they will offer some form of training for you. Buying used you are pretty much on your own unless you can work out some sort of deal with the people you buy the machine off of to give you some training on it while its still all together and running. Dont ever buy a used machine that you cannot see running/printing. Most machines will come with some form of manual to help set up the equipment, Packing specs, roller specs and so on. Load of books about solving print problems but most is learned by doing, screwing up and learning by mistakes. Good luck

 

[kdw75]

Are you buying new or used? If you purchase a new machine from a reputable dealer they will offer some form of training for you. Buying used you are pretty much on your own unless you can work out some sort of deal with the people you buy the machine off of to give you some training on it while its still all together and running. Dont ever buy a used machine that you cannot see running/printing. Most machines will come with some form of manual to help set up the equipment, Packing specs, roller specs and so on. Load of books about solving print problems but most is learned by doing, screwing up and learning by mistakes. Good luck

You might be surprised at what you can find on Youtube to help with specific things. Have you run any presses at all? Jumping into running a 4-color is pretty bold. I have been running presses so long I don't even think about it, and I am not sure what type of knowledge you will need.

Below is a link to part 1 of a series of videos that you may find helpful. It is based on a GTO, but it has some good general guidance.

Heidelberg GTO 1988, Training Videos 1 of 9 - YouTube

 

[Pitersen]

I'll be buying second hand machine. All of the machines I have called about, I could come and see working before the collection and payment.

I could buy Heidelberg Quickmaster 46-2 one colour machine and learn on this one?
But then I usually pick things up pretty quickly, so I thought I get 4 colour Ryobi and learn as I go. If I'll waste 4 pallets of paper to learn, so be it.
In the long run this could save me a fortune. I unfortunately can't afford to close the shop and go for the course or employ someone to teach me.
I'm at the point where I was thinking about getting second hand Indigo but really I think it's not an upgrade from what we have already.
Offset gives me possibility of running top quality, at reasonable price and I could do all of thouse 10,000 copies orders inhouse which would be the whole new world for me.

 

[mpsolutions]

If you dont know much about running an offset press, I would suggest to get a press with all the bells and whistles your budget can afford e.g: automatic plate change, automatic blanket clean, automatic format preset, console for ink and register. All this will make your life a lot easier and your learning curve much shorter. Ryobi 3304 is a simple machine to run but can be very tricky... I would go for an SM52-4 or a Ryobi 524 HE. Another way to do it if you can't afford to buy these presses, is to buy a 2 colour Ryobi 3302HA, they can be picked up fairly cheap now and learn on it until you are ready for the 4 colour version 3304.

 

[Pitersen]

If you dont know much about running an offset press, I would suggest to get a press with all the bells and whistles your budget can afford e.g: automatic plate change, automatic blanket clean, automatic format preset, console for ink and register. All this will make your life a lot easier and your learning curve much shorter. Ryobi 3304 is a simple machine to run but can be very tricky... I would go for an SM52-4 or a Ryobi 524 HE. Another way to do it if you can't afford to buy these presses, is to buy a 2 colour Ryobi 3302HA, they can be picked up fairly cheap now and learn on it until you are ready for the 4 colour version 3304.

My mind is sort of set for Ryobi 3304. It usually come with the following:
Bacher register system, Central Air Supply Cabinet, Chromed Blanket cylinders, Chromed Cylinders, Chromed Impression cylinders, Chromed Plate cylinders, Console, Double sheet control, Quick action plate clamps, Quick release clamps, Semi Auto Plate Change, Alcohol damping, Royse refrigeration and recirculation, Powder spray, Weko powder spray, Ryobimatic continuous alcohol dampening, RP520-220 register punch.

I can't see the point of buying 2 colour offset. I know myself, once I learn to use one colour, learning the second one, third, forth, fifth etc will be easy. There will not be much price difference between 2 colour and four colour.

I know once I will buy it I'll be looking at it for hours, until I'll even touch it. Then i'll have an ice breaker at some point an will work it until throws out good print.

 

[dabob]

Just as a sidebar . .. a little humor - When I got my first "non duplicator" presss I went to a 26 inch Harris . . . a good friend of mine told me, "Now that you have a real press . . . you can make REAL mistakes" and I must say he did have a point, until the learning curve went away

 

[Alois Senefelder]

mmmmmm!

mmmmmm!

Peter,


mmmm all that Chromium ! is not the answer.

Seeing that you are based in the UK, why don't you try attending the Printing Courses at

Leeds City College (Printing Dept.) this will give you an insight into Offset Lithographic Printing

before you spend any money on a Press.


Regards, Alois

 

[Pitersen]

Peter,


mmmm all that Chromium ! is not the answer.

Seeing that you are based in the UK, why don't you try attending the Printing Courses at

Leeds City College (Printing Dept.) this will give you an insight into Offset Lithographic Printing

before you spend any money on a Press.


Regards, Alois

Alois,
I don't really fancy closing the shop to attend the course and Leeds is couple of hours drive each way from me.
Actually I never did well at school, I've only excelled in annoying teachers.
I wouldn't last, I would get the books, closed myself in a workshop for few nights and would stop trying once unconscious or once it prints four colours with perfect registration. Next week I would go on the course, and would be bored to death.

I prefer hands on learning, in my own environment on my own equipment.

 

[OkiTech]

Here is the thought - Heidelberg DI. I am expecting lots of votes against but this is the way I went. Well I did got my feet wet with number of 1 / 2 color offset presses, I had a AB Dick 360, Multi 1250, AB Dick Century 3500S, Ryobi 512, Toko R2SH, Ryobi 3302H.
I am copier service engineer, not a pressman really so I thought - all the time I am wasting setting up a 2 color jobs, register, set ink keys, why don't I buy a DI, yes it is oldish but still heidelberg, click a button, press images the plates, by the time it's done - plates are imaged, in register, ink key set, what could be better... Yes plates are more expensive but my time spent on those makereadies is even more expensive, while I am no longer doing all that, I can operate my digital equipment or fix and/or diagnose copier/printer problem or in any way compensate extra cost of those plates by doing something else that brings profit.
Anyway - just my 2 cents. Also - you realize that you will also need a platemaker for that ryobi 3304 you have set your mind on right? And if you plan on running top notch color - it better be a good one too.
Good luck.

 

[OkiTech]

I'll be buying second hand machine. All of the machines I have called about, I could come and see working before the collection and payment.

I could buy Heidelberg Quickmaster 46-2 one colour machine and learn on this one?
But then I usually pick things up pretty quickly, so I thought I get 4 colour Ryobi and learn as I go. If I'll waste 4 pallets of paper to learn, so be it.
In the long run this could save me a fortune. I unfortunately can't afford to close the shop and go for the course or employ someone to teach me.
I'm at the point where I was thinking about getting second hand Indigo but really I think it's not an upgrade from what we have already.
Offset gives me possibility of running top quality, at reasonable price and I could do all of thouse 10,000 copies orders inhouse which would be the whole new world for me.

If you plan on buying Ryobi 3304 but buy something to learn on in between - better off buying a Ryobi 3302.
#1 it is the same operational principal so you would not need to learn a whole different animal when 3304 comes in.
#2 you could actually keep it for 1 or 2 color jobs that would be a waist to throw on 4 color press and or running a varnish

 

[wld85022]

Here is the thought - Heidelberg DI. I am expecting lots of votes against but this is the way I went. Well I did got my feet wet with number of 1 / 2 color offset presses, I had a AB Dick 360, Multi 1250, AB Dick Century 3500S, Ryobi 512, Toko R2SH, Ryobi 3302H.
I am copier service engineer, not a pressman really so I thought - all the time I am wasting setting up a 2 color jobs, register, set ink keys, why don't I buy a DI, yes it is oldish but still heidelberg, click a button, press images the plates, by the time it's done - plates are imaged, in register, ink key set, what could be better... Yes plates are more expensive but my time spent on those makereadies is even more expensive, while I am no longer doing all that, I can operate my digital equipment or fix and/or diagnose copier/printer problem or in any way compensate extra cost of those plates by doing something else that brings profit.
Anyway - just my 2 cents. Also - you realize that you will also need a platemaker for that ryobi 3304 you have set your mind on right? And if you plan on running top notch color - it better be a good one too.
Good luck.

Good idea but I would go with a Presstek DI instead. I mean the certified pre owned units which are Ryobis. No need to get a plate maker since the plates are part of the machine. Very little set up and a whole lot easier than the 3304. I know I will get flamed for the suggestion. But after running a DI and a 3302/4 series, the DI is SOOOO easy! Esp. if you have no experience.

 

[JimBob53]

buying a press is fine. But, what type of prepress operation are you going to set up, or do you already have a plating system? Getting good plates is just as important as the press you put them on.

I am an old darkroom man. I spent 30 years making negatives, stripping flats and making plates for many different kind of presses. Prepress is important.

 

[wld85022]

buying a press is fine. But, what type of prepress operation are you going to set up, or do you already have a plating system? Getting good plates is just as important as the press you put them on.

I am an old darkroom man. I spent 30 years making negatives, stripping flats and making plates for many different kind of presses. Prepress is important.

It's all digital now. I don't even know of a vendor who does negs anymore.

 

[acacia print]

The Ryobi 3304 looks a ok press for full colour. You will need to carefully understand roller settings with any offset, the 3304 looks like it has the same feeder as the two colour Ryobi I used to run, this is not the best feeder but if your used to the slight variances found in digital prints then you will cope ok. "Fitting" of the plates images to each other will test you some but only until you have it nutted out through trial an error. Certainly on longer runs offset is still king, but digital prices continue to fall so the gap is narrowing. I would say that if you do a lot of work that is one colour invoice books etc with numbering then considers starting with a single colour offset with numbering capabilities. Then go for a four colour, you can always do your two and three colour work on the four colour press, but most work these days seems to fall into either single colour cheap work or full colour work. I think the impact of digital means that folk are now expecting everything to be in full colour. Not unlike the impact that colour TVs have had. now no one buys a black & White TV not even for monitors. Print seems to be heading the same way. Also make friends with a offset printer outside your region who has a similar set up. That has been a life saver for me. Like another chap said You tube will teach you a lot, trial and error will as well. The press once set up well and running will bring you a lot of satisfaction. but be warned that if you don't do the basics it will bit you, and bit you harder than you ever thought possible.. Get the basics right..

 

[RGPW17100]

Ryobi 3304 will limit you due to cylinder size. I may be wrong but I believe the image area is the same as it is for the 3302. If that is the case you can only image out to 17.25 inches even though it runs an 18 inch sheet. This means in order for you to run an 11x17 sheet with bleeds you will not have color bars. Without the color bars you are only guessing on the color and unable to keep it consitant. It took me years to master an AB Dick with a thead. Sure I could get paper through it but dealing with all the things that happen in printing, ink, fountain, paper, mechanical settings it will take you at least a year to start getting comfortable with the press and years to get compitent. Even going to a vocational school just gives you the basics and it takes years to hone that. Not many people can pick up a musical instrument and be any good at it in a couple of months. Same goes with a printing press. Your best to hire an operator and learn from him then let go of the operator then run the machine on your own.

 

[Risu]

DI press (QMDI) user here and 1 vote more for Di press, especially if you are technically talented.

 

[cosmo]

why do you need an offset press? what gear do you have at the moment? Those ryobis are pigs of machines, you would be better off with a digital machine.

 

[Possumgal]

If you have no experience with offset, you really need some kind of training. It's not the kind of thing you can just dive into and push through until you learn, especially if you're planning on doing any process color work. You need to know what to look for and what to adjust when this or that happens. There are so many variables, it's not even funny. You need to understand the machine, what it does, how it "thinks."

You say you are willing to waste four pallets of paper if that's what it takes. Better to take the money for that paper and get some training. It'll save you a whole lot of frustration later when you run into a problem you've never seen before. And you will.

 

[Pitersen]

Here is the thought - Heidelberg DI. I am expecting lots of votes against but this is the way I went. Well I did got my feet wet with number of 1 / 2 color offset presses, I had a AB Dick 360, Multi 1250, AB Dick Century 3500S, Ryobi 512, Toko R2SH, Ryobi 3302H.
I am copier service engineer, not a pressman really so I thought - all the time I am wasting setting up a 2 color jobs, register, set ink keys, why don't I buy a DI, yes it is oldish but still heidelberg, click a button, press images the plates, by the time it's done - plates are imaged, in register, ink key set, what could be better... Yes plates are more expensive but my time spent on those makereadies is even more expensive, while I am no longer doing all that, I can operate my digital equipment or fix and/or diagnose copier/printer problem or in any way compensate extra cost of those plates by doing something else that brings profit.
Anyway - just my 2 cents. Also - you realize that you will also need a platemaker for that ryobi 3304 you have set your mind on right? And if you plan on running top notch color - it better be a good one too.
Good luck.

OK, as I was extremely busy printing (using inkjet technology ;-), I didn't have much time to read on it. But you have planted the seed. Heidelberg Classic DI 46/4 Plus is currently twice my theoretical budget, but delivery and installation is included. Comes with new rip as well.
Did I say my mind is set at Ryobi 3304? Not so sure now. Need to read a bit more on DI this weekend, but I'm sort of excited, as it might be a perfect machine for me. 4 colours, 4 blankets, does the plates, comes with rip.

Makes plates in 7 minutes! Sometimes I wait longer for the file to spool when printing.

Thanks UnlimitedBT