Canon C7010vp vs C7000vp

[kevneto]

Ok, the boss has asked me to evaluate the new Canon C7010 printer as an upgrade to our current 2- 7000's. From my research here and on the web, it seems like a better machine than it's predecessor, but I am not completely sold. I need some good feedback from those who have experience with both machines in the field. Canon is giving us a sweet deal and the boss is seriously considering it. Again, I am a bit hesitant and 4-5 years is a long time to be stuck with temperamental boat anchors!

I know all about the 7000's as we have had them for 4 years. When they are working, they do have great image quality, run an bunch of paper stocks, registration is pretty good and color consistency is OK. They can be a service nightmares when you run heavy stocks with heavy coverage all month.(which we do!)

Service is here 4-5 times a week to service both of our 7000's. Our service providers are some of the best I have seen and they often go above and beyond to keep these machine going,(even coming in on Saturday and not charging me) We usually run 180-250K (13 x 19) on these machine per month. So we beat them pretty hard. Under this production, how much should my service calls go down with the 7010?

We do alot of maintenance on them ourselves and have insisted that Canon train us to change fuser rollers, webs, drums, corona wires, developer units and developer as part of signing a new agreement on the 7010's. They have agreed to this.

I also have a Nexpress 2500 which I love and Kodak has made a good offer for upgrading/adding an additional machine. This would be my first choice, but Kodak's current financial problems put a big question mark on how well they could support the Nexpress. Have to be careful and hence why we are taking a closer look at the 7010.

I know that the 7010 is not in the same league as a Nexpress. But I wonder if the 7010 with it's enhancements could be a machine that could run heavier production for 2 shifts?
My gut feeling is though this is a better machine and it has addressed some issues, my guess is that the uptime will go from 55-60 to maybe 70 percent.

I appreciate anyone with real world experience with the C7010 giving their input.

Thanks,

Kevin

 

[kevneto]

I know that there is some info on the 7010's on other posts. It just makes it easier to direct my boss to one posts with some answers.

Thanks in advance!

 

[TeeBee]

Kevin,

As I'm working at Océ we now also sell the C7010VP and C7010VPS. From users of it's predecessor I hear that the new machine solved the problems of the old one. The C7010VP is for us also a new product and we've been squeezing it for some time now. This exercise showed what a robust machine it is with printquality that equals HP Indigo a number of times. Running heavy stock is also not a problem.
If you can choose between C7010VP and C7010VPS, you have to choose for the VPS as this controller brings you a lot ease-of-use and a great planboard.

 

[wmwilker]

Kevin,
I would run from Canon as fast as you can.
We had a C7010VP installed the end of June of this year with a Creo front end and have had nothing but problems.
I have a couple of thread here that discuss the problems.
My main concern is that Canon and Oce have done NOTHING but pass the buck and have left us with the problem. We are considering legal action if the machine is not replaced soon.

I would NOT recommend any Canon product again.

I'll link the other threads for your review.

http://printplanet.com/forums/digital-printing-discussion/25223-xerox-800-vs-km-c8000-vs-canon-c7010vp

Look to page 4 for our problems

I would be very careful when buying Canon from an Oce dealer as there is a lot of jockeying going on to save jobs during the transition. We have had nothing but frustration when dealing with Oce.
You will find the problems we are having on page 4 of that thread.

 

[kevneto]

HI wmwilker,

I did read through your posts and I'm sorry that you are having so many problems. We have our current 7000's through a local canon dealer and the 7010's would come from them. They are top notch and would never pass the buck or let a problem stand like your vendor has done. Most unfortunate!

Like i said, the 7010's are not my first choice, but have to do the research as the boss wants. I do appreciate your input and hope your situation improves.

Kevin

 

[wmwilker]

HI wmwilker,

I did read through your posts and I'm sorry that you are having so many problems. We have our current 7000's through a local canon dealer and the 7010's would come from them. They are top notch and would never pass the buck or let a problem stand like your vendor has done. Most unfortunate!

Like i said, the 7010's are not my first choice, but have to do the research as the boss wants. I do appreciate your input and hope your situation improves.

Kevin

Be aware that my vendor is Oce. We did not buy it from a "service company". This is a factory rep.

 

[kevneto]

Noted.

You know, no matter what machine you get it is critical that you know who will directly be supporting the equipment. I always insist on meeting the service manager and tech before signing any paperwork on a new machine to hear their service philosophy and lay out my expectations.

I have the cell numbers of all the techs, service manager and the VP of Operations. I have found it much better to work with local service companies than dealing with corporate. I have to work with Xerox corporate on my smaller Xerox boxes. Sometimes trying to get stuff done is like pulling teeth. This is why I am not looking at Xerox machines.

 

[wmwilker]

We have an Oce 6150 black and white machine that is about 4 years old. I'm familiar with the service staff and I think highly of them. They can only do so much though and if the problem is beyond their realm then there is nothing they can do. It's the upper level techs with Oce that have been the problem. After speaking with several of them it is evident they have no idea what is going on. They keep passing the buck. Software says it's hardware. Hardware says it's software.
They have flown several techs from Boca to our site and the problem still exists. A Canon tech will be at our site in about an hour. If he can't fix the problem then we will demand an new machine or let the legals settle it. I work for a large corporation that has a lot of legal resources so we are not afraid to handle this in arbitration or court.

The fact that this has gone on since the end of June speaks volumes about Canon/Oce.

 

[LugNut]

Xerox?

Xerox?

Isn't there a "local" Xerox (private) affiliate with a service team in your area? It's worth paying a little more for the box if you are buying or even leasing when you have a local private company with a vested interest to serve you and keep you up and running. Surely, you know that. And when it comes to up-time isn't Xerox the best in the production category that fits your volume?

 

[kevneto]

Hi LugNut,

You're right. We have talked to a local Xerox service company about taking over the service on some smaller machines we have. I do like the local service model for the exact reasons you noted. Though I don't know at this point if they service the Xerox 800 or 1000 or IGEN 4.

Right now, I'm chewing through proposals from Canon and Kodak. I have some good input on the 7010, but am cautious especially after what wmwilker has noted on these posts. I am also cautious on Kodak concerning their current financial problems and ability to support the machines if things go south.