Canon C850 vs Ricoh 7100 or 9100 series.

[jkl67]

We are looking closely at going with one of these two machines. We run about 200K color impressions a month (tends to be slightly lower). We run a lot of P1S, full coverage (flooded) 10pt. C1S cover and a lot of 2 up flyers on 12 x 18 gloss text and cover weights (80 and 100# mostly). The 10 pt. C1S is almost always 13" x 20". We will also be starting to run 6 pagers on the same gloss stocks so a 27" sheet length is a must. We have been a Xerox shop for 25 yrs.

I would be very interested in hearing real world usage opinions....output quality and service especially.

Thanks in advance for your help!

 

[kslight]

I have no direct experience with the Canon, they are one of those companies that has been pretty indifferent to us when we have reached out to them recently.

I have recently demo'd a Ricoh 7210 (probably the model you want, not the 7100) and extensively tested the KM C6100 as well. I would highly recommend checking out either in person and get a feel for how they will be supported in your market, as that will be case by case. I feel like for the 27" sheet the KM has the edge productivity-wise, because we can get a more robust large capacity tray for stock that is this length. But interestingly the KM click charge at that length has been proposed to us as the base click times the multiple of 19"...so 27" would be 2 clicks per side. Still not unreasonable, and we aren't far enough along to have attempted to negotiate that down...but the Ricoh proposal I looked at was the same price no matter what size. I have outputs of the same files off both printers on my desk right now...while they are "different" I feel like quality on both is very good, seems pretty comparable, neither one stands out against the other. I haven't gone back to recheck the registration on the 7210 yet (it was a newly installed demo unit, wasn't quite 100% that day). Registration seems pretty good on the KM, certainly better than the Xerox J75s we currently have.

I have not seen the 9200 in person, though I thought its versatility (in terms of heavy stock support and speed) was impressive...I saw some output on 24pt which was ridiculous...though that is probably more machine than we require.

 

[namelessentity]

We have a 750 and I think it's garbage. The registration is terrible, especially with banner printing. It jams constantly with envelopes as well. I wish we never got it as a backup.

 

[Shawnd]

You want the 7200 if doing banner size, it can do it duplex. The 7100 sucks at banner size due to having to reach into the bowels to put those long sheets in twice.

 

[tpmar]

We are looking closely at going with one of these two machines. We run about 200K color impressions a month (tends to be slightly lower). We run a lot of P1S, full coverage (flooded) 10pt. C1S cover and a lot of 2 up flyers on 12 x 18 gloss text and cover weights (80 and 100# mostly). The 10 pt. C1S is almost always 13" x 20". We will also be starting to run 6 pagers on the same gloss stocks so a 27" sheet length is a must. We have been a Xerox shop for 25 yrs.

I would be very interested in hearing real world usage opinions....output quality and service especially.

Thanks in advance for your help!

I can only comment on the Ricoh 9100, and as previously mentioned the service in your particular area should be a big consideration. How many techs would be available to you and how big (geographically) is their area. I went from 10 years of running series 2 HP Indigos to the my current Ricoh ProC9100 and the service and support is exponentially better with Ricoh. Lots of spare parts on hand, and when I swap out a part, my tech stops by to rebuild it within about a week or so, then I'm good to go when it needs replaced again. Haven't done a lot of banner sheets, all have been 25.5 folded down to 8.5, all duplex. Skew is definitely an issue, figure a solid 1/8 from diagonal corners. Lots of bleed helps! Also as ksherrod mentioned, 2 clicks per side for this sheet size.

 

[jkl67]

I can only comment on the Ricoh 9100, and as previously mentioned the service in your particular area should be a big consideration. How many techs would be available to you and how big (geographically) is their area. I went from 10 years of running series 2 HP Indigos to the my current Ricoh ProC9100 and the service and support is exponentially better with Ricoh. Lots of spare parts on hand, and when I swap out a part, my tech stops by to rebuild it within about a week or so, then I'm good to go when it needs replaced again. Haven't done a lot of banner sheets, all have been 25.5 folded down to 8.5, all duplex. Skew is definitely an issue, figure a solid 1/8 from diagonal corners. Lots of bleed helps! Also as ksherrod mentioned, 2 clicks per side for this sheet size.

So by skew you mean the registration is off? I know what skew is...more overall image is crooked on the sheet....but wanting to be sure what you are saying. Thanks!

 

[kslight]

I got to check out a 7210 again yesterday, now it was dialed it. I printed one test sheet (13x19 100# cover) to see just where the alignment was at as is. In normal life I probably would have just made a shift and moved on...was not skewed at all, but it was off a bit. However, the Ricoh has an alignment program you can run and set per paper type...it takes 31 sheets to run this FYI. However upon completion, not only did it show you the before and after adjustment (how much it was adjusting...my first sheet had 0% adjustment across the board) but it was dead perfect when it was done. I ran a bunch more copies...and all stayed as near to perfect as I have EVER seen on a digital machine.

I think it is a pretty impressive machine. The sales guy clarified that banner sheets are 2 clicks per side regardless of size. It also blasted through a banner test which no other manufacturer can touch on a production machine (literally...out of spec for other machines and even when attempted it doesn't work well). I''m not sold on how much we would care about 5th color, but FWIW, we are considering bringing in a 9200 and maybe a 7210 into our shop. I think the KM is a good machine also, both machines make very nice prints....but as far as registration is concerned, I think I would have to give Ricoh a slight edge.

 

[ColorMonkey]

Skew is definitely an issue, figure a solid 1/8 from diagonal corners. Lots of bleed helps! Also as ksherrod mentioned, 2 clicks per side for this sheet size.

I can confirm this is an issue on the 7100 series as well. Also you have to duplex manually. Another thing is even though the 7100 is supposed to handle textured stocks better as far as laying down in the recesses of the texture, I actually like the 651 better as far as overall quality on textured stocks. Don't get me wrong both presses do fine, but the 7100 was really supposed to do a better job.

Personally I love both presses though and service in my area is great! (Oregon)

 

[tpmar]

So by skew you mean the registration is off? I know what skew is...more overall image is crooked on the sheet....but wanting to be sure what you are saying. Thanks!

Hey jkl67; I would describe the skew I get on banner sheets on my 9100 like this. As you pick up the sheet from the finisher tray and hold a flashlight under the operator side front corner, the tick mark will be off by about 1/16 to the right (op side) then do the same thing with the back gear side corner and the ticks will be off about that much but to the left. With these big "C" folds I do, with good bleed there is no issue with white showing, but if you have really tight panel fit, this skew can be a problems. Forgot to mention what ColorMonkey said. If you do what I call "duel simplex" that can really help a lot with this. I usually send the side with the least coverage through first, then reload the sheets printed side down and send them through and hit the higher coverage side. It's a little more involved, but does help with this. And keep in mind on the Ricoh's that banner tray doesn't hold a lot of sheets.

 

[kdw75]

Our contract is nearing its end and before we get a Xerox 3100, I am interested in the 7210x primarily because of the 5th color option on this class of machine. We don’t need an Iridesse.