Chemistry-free plates with Suprasetter

[Syed]

We have a Heidelberg Suprasetter 105 with online processor, currently using Kodak Thermal Chemical plates, want to use processless plates. Saphira is not available here in Dubai. Anyone has experience with other processless plates or chemistry-free plates with Suprasetter? Kindly share.

 

[SteveAgfa]

Syed:

Agfa's Azura TS is jointly qualified by Heidelberg and Agfa to perform to specifications on your device.
It is also the only chem-free / processless plate technology qualified to work with HDM's Anicolor inking system.

Check with your local Agfa agent for more information.

Regards,

 

[Syed]

Thanks Steeve for the info.

I checked with the local dealer, Azura is available here but I would like to know if we can use the current Gluz and Jenson Plate processor for cleaning the Azura plate by adding the Gum, or do we need to buy the C85 cleaning unit. Also, do we need to change any laser power settings on the CTP.

 

[Derek@Kodak]

Syed,

Kodak Thermal Direct Non Process Plates are jointly qualified by Kodak and Heidelberg to image on a Suprasetter 105. Please call your local Kodak sales rep or dealer to discuss how you can transition to Kodak Thermal Direct Plates.

Thanks,
Derek@Kodak

 

[SteveAgfa]

Syed:

I'm not tech support - but considering your location, I'll give some basic guidance.

Conventional plate processors are not qualified nor supported to provide optimal clean-out of Azura.
The C85 unit you mentioned is designed specifically to do the job, and for its ease-of-use.

WRT exposure settings, yes - whenever you change from one plate technology to another,
drum speeds and/or laser power settings would need to be changed. As Azura and Azura TS
are qualified by Heidelberg, their engineer/agents have the specific recommended settings.

Regards,

 

[tommy_ib]

Hi Syed

We are equiped with a Suprasetter 105 + a Glunz & Jenson in-line processor. We are using processless Saphira Thermoplate NA witch are exactly the same plates as Agfa Amigo 30 (here in Canada). So if Saphira plates are not available in your region, check with Agfa...

Thanks.

 

[pauljrudman]

Xingraphics will be launching their Fit Eco plate 3rd qtr 2009 -this is the first phase change plate (the plate coating is converted by a standard 830nm thermal laser to accept ink ) This technology means that unlike the Fuji Pro T or Kodak Thermal direct no coating is removed during the printing process - the plate looks the same after printing.
This emerging technology is the holy grail and I am sure others will follow - run length is only 50K at present .

hope this useful

 

[Barry Brown]

We have a Heidelberg Suprasetter 105 with online processor, currently using Kodak Thermal Chemical plates, want to use processless plates. Saphira is not available here in Dubai. Anyone has experience with other processless plates or chemistry-free plates with Suprasetter? Kindly share.

Lab247, Epping, UK, is using Fujifilm's "Brillia Pro-T" processless plate with their Heideberg Suprasetter 102P CTP. Fujifilm UK could be you best port of call for further information. regards, Barry

 

[Fatboysmart]

We use the Kodak Thermal Direct with our Suprasetter A52... works great. Only drawback is the speed which will be much lower then with conventional plates.

 

[Syed]

Thanks for the information on other processless plates. I would like to know if any debris is removed during imaging of Azura or Azura TS and whether the Heidelberg Suprasetter 105 is equipped to handle the debri removal.

Syed

 

[SteveAgfa]

Syed:

Azura (and Azura TS) is not an ablative technology.

The desired imaged is fused into the plate grain by
the action of the laser melting microscopic oleophillic
latex beads which are suspended in the plate emulsion
by a water soluable binder.

The clean-out unit, with its single solution wash/gum,
removes the un-fused emulsion, leaving platesetter free
of debris, and nothing to clean-out on-press. The result
is a high-contrast image on a traditionally anodized and
grained aluminum surface.

For more information:

AGFA.com - :Azura TS

Regards,

 

[mac310]

Dear: Fatboysmart, pauljrudman and Barry Brown. How you can work with ThermalDirect/ProT or Xingraphics plates? They don't allow to control plate production. Measurement is not possible and visual control of the strip is also a challenge.
Today high quality printing can't be done without quality control of every process.
Think about standards like PSO.

 

[Fatboysmart]

Dear: Fatboysmart, pauljrudman and Barry Brown. How you can work with ThermalDirect/ProT or Xingraphics plates? They don't allow to control plate production. Measurement is not possible and visual control of the strip is also a challenge.
Today high quality printing can't be done without quality control of every process.
Think about standards like PSO.

Visual control is perfectly possible. Everyone always says you can't see the image on the plate, but that is not true. Even 6 pt text is still perfectly readable. Plate measurement is possible after you develop the plate on press. If you are used to measure each and every plate you make, then this technology is not for you. If you calibrate it once and do an occasional check, it is no problem at all.

As far as stability... we calibrated the plates on our presses about two years ago, and we have never had to recalibrate since.

 

[marktonk]

Thanks for the information on other processless plates. I would like to know if any debris is removed during imaging of Azura or Azura TS and whether the Heidelberg Suprasetter 105 is equipped to handle the debri removal.

Syed

Hi Syed,

Suprasetter has an option for a Debris removal system. It is integrated inside the CtP and the replaceable filter is rated for up to 25,000 Square Meters.

Regards,

Mark Tonkovich
Heidelberg USA

 

[Barry Brown]

Filter unit for ablative plates

Filter unit for ablative plates

Syed:

"Azura (and Azura TS) is not an ablative technology."

I think that both Screen and Fuji at least believe that Azura does indeed ablate. There is an optional AF-180 Air Filtering Unit for Fuji Luxel T/Screen PlateRite, specifically recommended when Agfa Azura or Kodak Saphira are used, to remove the ablated dust produced by the plate, and thereby reduce the cleaning frequency of the optics.
Is :Avalon not a Screen OEM device? Is the same kit supplied as standard?
--Barry--

 

[SteveAgfa]

Thanks Barry for making that clarification.

I was speaking in general - whereas unlike the original SDT or ZP plate from DuPont,
or it's cousin Mistral from Agfa, or plates from the Presstek assortment - Azura is not
an ablative process.

Yes, to your point - depending upon the device (and power and volume), there may be
requirements for an air filtration system. This can also be found as a requirement for
some "traditional" digital plates as well - this is not necessarily just a chem-free feature.

Best bet - check with your platesetter manufacturer for specific recommendations.

 

[mac310]

As far as stability... we calibrated the plates on our presses about two years ago, and we have never had to recalibrate since.

Interesting... I suppose that you don't make any platesetter maintenance also...
I can understand that some kind of jobs can be printed using whatever plate So for that kind of jobs ThermalDirect is good enough.
For top quality jobs we have to control every step quickly and precisely... this is standarisation.

 

[Derek@Kodak]

Mac310,

I think you need to separate stability from quality – they’re related, but separate.

Concerning stability, non process plates like Kodak Thermal Direct have removed processors and chemistry from the platemaking process reducing process variability. Develop-on-press is a physical process, not a chemical one, and not subject to chemical variability (at least for Thermal Direct – I can’t speak for Fuji). Just because you can’t measure the plate doesn’t mean you don’t have a repeatable and predictable plate. If a tree falls in the woods….

The arguments that you can’t see the image don’t hold water anymore - time and time again Thermal Direct customers chime in on their ability to easily read 12pt. text to mount the plates correctly on press (Even 6pt text as Fatboysmart indicated). Some shops may measure every plate for ISO process needs, but by eliminating the variation of processing chemistry (coupled with the rock-solid imaging of SQUAREspot), you’ve eliminated the source of variation you’re trying to monitor in the first place. In most cases, once Kodak sets up the plate on the CTP, printers don’t need to worry about calibration maintenance again.

Concerning quality, be careful in comparing Xingraphics to Thermal Direct or Pro-T. I welcome additional competitors in the non process plate technology arena but they are just out of the gate. Remember, Creo was commercializing a similar (identical?) product back in 2004, and we stopped those efforts because the technology was measurably inferior to Thermal Direct. Additionally, Kodak Thermal Direct Non Process Plates (depending on press conditions) hold 1-98% screen tints at 200 lpi and has FM screening capability of 25 micron stochastic. Since most of your posts argue against non process plates, I can only assume that you are an Azura man, so you know that only recently that plate reported fm screening capability in it’s datasheet.

I agree with your statement that high quality printing can’t de done without quality control of every process; but I hope that even you’d agree that having fewer processes to control is a better starting point – and that’s what we’ve done with Thermal Direct.

- Derek@Kodak

 

[mac310]

Thx Derek for that long explanation. I can see that You are TD Man so it is understandable and it is not a problem. You know that technology and can explain it perfectly... I hope.
I would like to remind that ThermoFuse technology similar to TD was developed and patented by Agfa before 2000 and commercialised in 2000 as Thermolite. I hope that you know that. Amigo, Azura and Azura TS are next steps and it can be called evolution progress.
The question is why HDM not certified his new ink system Anicolor with TD? May some emulsion particles contaminate the press...?
Another question. How B2 or smaller paper sheet can quickly and easily takes all unused emulsion from inking rolls in B1 press? (or other press uses much bigger plate size then paper size)

 

[Fatboysmart]

Interesting... I suppose that you don't make any platesetter maintenance also...
I can understand that some kind of jobs can be printed using whatever plate So for that kind of jobs ThermalDirect is good enough.
For top quality jobs we have to control every step quickly and precisely... this is standarisation.

Sorry for my late response. What i meant was that after the initial calibration we of course check to see if the calibration is still ok. In two years the checks have always been identical to the initial calibration, so no need to re-calibrate. This means our production process (plates, press etc.) is very stable.

As Derek said, the absence of any chemicals in the plate developement process is probably a major factor. And yes we maintain all our equipment very well.