Color constant inks

[gordo]

Wouldn't this then limit the ability to emulate spot colors or higher saturated printing? Not sure inkjet manufacturers see limiting the gamut to ISO as all that desirable given that the "proofing" market likely isn't as large as say the "photographic" market.

Well, just speculating. Since inkjet usually have more than cmyk inks - what if cmyk were pigments that had a similar spectral composition to ISO - giving the match across different illuminants. Then add 3 ink hues to broaden the gamut to hit the PMS library. Basically the same thing that's done on press with spot color replacement/simulation systems. I know that on press a 7 color inkset will hit some 95% of the PMS library so maybe it would be possible to do the same with inkjet.
Just a thought.
I don't know what the economics are for proofing consumables like ink - but I think they are very, very profitable as they are. If a vendor came out with a better ink set they could probably command an even higher price and hence profit margin.
Given the fact that vendors haven't been able to figure out a take up spool so that the prints aren't just dumped on the floor - the technical challenges must be very difficult.

best, gordon p

 

[Bret Hesler]

Wouldn't this then limit the ability to emulate spot colors or higher saturated printing? Not sure inkjet manufacturers see limiting the gamut to ISO as all that desirable given that the "proofing" market likely isn't as large as say the "photographic" market.

Only if the inkjet inks were designed to match ISO at 100% ink output. If say it took 85% inkjet magenta to match ISO/Litho Magenta, there is still room for more ink output and expanded gamut, along with Gordo's suggestion of the other inks to expand the gamut.

Bret

 

[meddington]

Given the fact that vendors haven't been able to figure out a take up spool so that the prints aren't just dumped on the floor - the technical challenges must be very difficult.

Hey, I'm just glad that the days of manually taping the media onto the drum like the old Iris proofers, only to have it become detached while spinning are over.

 

[Cold]

Your grammar is excellent.

It would be interesting to hear from an ink manufacturer as to whether the pigments in inkjet printers can be formulated to be used for the press. But, if possible, wouldn't that mean that the ink would no longer conform to ISO? Would it not be better instead if the proofing inkjet pigments be similar to the pigments used in press inks? That way the press inks would still conform to ISO and the proof align with the press work under different lighting conditions.

best, gordon p

I am willing to look into this, if someone would be willing to send me a K3 proof showing solids of each of the 4 primary colors as well as the light colors(so I can verify the light colors contain the same colorants as the full strength ones).

I believe K3 is pigmented, not dyed. Therefore, I may very well be able to make a printing ink to match. I have a suspicion that, once I identify the pigments used, coupled with being sub-micron particles, that the expense of the litho ink will kill the project. However, I am willing to at least take it that far out of curiosity alone. I will also compare to the ISO 2846-1 for confomity.

If anyone is willing to make me a proof and send it to me with plenty of the paper the proof was made on, please let me know and I will pm my company info and address.

 

[gordo]

I believe K3 is pigmented, not dyed. Therefore, I may very well be able to make a printing ink to match. I have a suspicion that, once I identify the pigments used, coupled with being sub-micron particles, that the expense of the litho ink will kill the project.

Would the pigment have to be ground that fine for litho application? If it was the same pigment, wouldn't it work at standard grind size for litho?

best, gordon p

 

[Cold]

Would the pigment have to be ground that fine for litho application? If it was the same pigment, wouldn't it work at standard grind size for litho?

best, gordon p

To be honest, I do not know. After looking at a sub-micron quindo from company x, I'd never seen anything quite like it. I would definitely start with litho grade pigments and branch out from there.

 

[Alois Senefelder]

Exact Colour # 2

Exact Colour # 2

Gentlemen,

One more PDF re Ink Pigment Particle Size.


" From knowledge to competence is a great step -- from ignorance to competence an
even greater one"


Regards, Alois

 

[gordo]

But what's the actual pigment size?

But what's the actual pigment size?

Gentlemen,

One more PDF re Ink Pigment Particle Size.

Regards, Alois

Unfortunately it doesn't actually give the pigment particle size for offset inks. Does anyone have that info?


thx, gordon p

 

[Alois Senefelder]

Pigment Size

Pigment Size

Hello Gordo and fellow Lithographers,


PDFs - that give some answers ! - well one at least!!!! - I will re-size PDF # 2



Regards, Alois

 

[Alois Senefelder]

Missing PDF

Missing PDF

Never mind looking for "El Dorado" the lost PDF !!!!!!!!!!



Regards, Alois

 

[gordo]

Never mind looking for "El Dorado" the lost PDF !!!!!!!!!!
Regards, Alois

You are a champ! Would you also happen to having the winning numbers for next weeks Lotto? ;-)

best, gordon p

 

[Cold]

I'm guessing he does in PDF form.