Color management after PP laminating

[DeltaE]

Hello Experts,

My common packaging job:
-CMYK offset printing
-PP laminating (matt film laminating)
-Color matching between final box (laminated surface) and sample of customer.
We all know that the color will change after PP laminating. We had tried to make the profile after PP laminating, proof- matching for color after PP laminating.
But it is too difficult, I can not match the color-after-laminating with a ink-jet proofing.

So has anyone tried to do this? Could you please share your experience or opinion? Should I do like this or another way?

Thanks in advance!
Regards,
DeltaE

 

[Schnitzel]

Sorry, what do you mean by "it is too difficult, I can not match the color-after-laminating with a ink-jet proofing"? What exactly are the problems you're facing?

I've measured laminated patches in the past and I don't remember any special problems with that.

 

[DeltaE]

Schnitzel
when I measure patches, the L*a*b* value after lamination is different compared to before lamination.
In my opinion, this is effect of the laminating film layer. But I closer look at the result I get:
Some solid patch:
In patches are 100% C, M, Y and 100% CM, CY, MY; Lab values are only changed a little (Delta E could be below 0.5)
But in some other patches:
C=10%, M=5%, for example, the Lab value is changed a lot, and I can get Delta E is 2.5.

So Lab values of some solid patches are changed very little but other patches are changed a lot.
If I want to adjust some % dot area to match color to the reference, it will be very difficult because I have to guess how much.
With color management, I try to do color matching between proof ink-jet and offset-print with lamination. It means proof ink-jet will simulate the result of offset printout with lamination. But my result is not good at all, the proof ink-jet can not print the same color as offset-print with lamination.

My question is anyone has tried to use an ink-jet for simulating a offset print with lamination and get the success, please share your experience and comment!

Thanks and regards,
DeltaE

 

[arossetti]

Schnitzel
when I measure patches, the L*a*b* value after lamination is different compared to before lamination.
In my opinion, this is effect of the laminating film layer. But I closer look at the result I get:
Some solid patch:
In patches are 100% C, M, Y and 100% CM, CY, MY; Lab values are only changed a little (Delta E could be below 0.5)
But in some other patches:
C=10%, M=5%, for example, the Lab value is changed a lot, and I can get Delta E is 2.5.

So Lab values of some solid patches are changed very little but other patches are changed a lot.
If I want to adjust some % dot area to match color to the reference, it will be very difficult because I have to guess how much.
With color management, I try to do color matching between proof ink-jet and offset-print with lamination. It means proof ink-jet will simulate the result of offset printout with lamination. But my result is not good at all, the proof ink-jet can not print the same color as offset-print with lamination.

My question is anyone has tried to use an ink-jet for simulating a offset print with lamination and get the success, please share your experience and comment!

Thanks and regards,
DeltaE

I have yet to play with profiling with an overlam but I would think you might need to explore using M3 measurement mode. Someone with more experience can correct me.

 

[mazengh]

If you're printing to European standard, ie fogra39, you can use the eci profiles to simulate the laminate. This is what we do and it helps a lot. Check the below link. Let me know if you still need help.

http://www.eci.org/en/colorstandards/offset

 

[Schnitzel]

when I measure patches, the L*a*b* value after lamination is different compared to before lamination.
In my opinion, this is effect of the laminating film layer.

That is normal and expected.

But I closer look at the result I get:
Some solid patch:
In patches are 100% C, M, Y and 100% CM, CY, MY; Lab values are only changed a little (Delta E could be below 0.5)
But in some other patches:
C=10%, M=5%, for example, the Lab value is changed a lot, and I can get Delta E is 2.5.

So Lab values of some solid patches are changed very little but other patches are changed a lot.

That is also expected. The effect of the lamination film is not linearly proportional across the color gamut.

If I want to adjust some % dot area to match color to the reference, it will be very difficult because I have to guess how much.

Well, I'd argue that the entire point of color management is that you won't need to make manual adjustments to colors in order to match a reference.


The process should be as follows:

1. Print the ICC profile target using a stable and repeatable process.
2. Laminate the prints.
3. Measure the laminated prints and create an ICC profile.
4. Use the resulting ICC profile in the proofer to match the press.
5. View prints under standard lighting (the same type as set in the ICC profile).

Repeatability is the key - if the lamination changes the colors unpredictably, or the press is unstable, this process will fail.

 

[DeltaE]

Schnitzel You are right, I am confused! Thank you for your explanation! Regards, DeltaE

 

[xmoles]

[h=2]www.eci.org

Usage in practice (surface finisher)[/h] Colour changes during lamination depend only on the materials. Glossy films are very similar, but matte films can have quite different values
ofhaze / opacity. The average matte film given by FOGRA49 leads to a lightness increase of ∆L* = 6 in the solid black patch and is well suited for typical production. A clearer film will cause less lightening; a matter film will cause more. Therefore, individual film types can be classified by measuring solid black before and after lamination (on the same patch on the very same sheet, before and after).
ECI Offset Profiles – Supplement 2012-2 – Surface Finishing

 

[DeltaE]

Thank you xmoles !