config password
- Thread starter NJservice
- Start date
NJService, I see you are providing service for Trendsetters... how come you don't know this?
Configuration passwords were used before the introduction of CFL quite a few years ago. Now, the machine and head type, performance and output are set in the license files
Sorry Gents,
But I have very dummy question. I buy and pay a Trendsetter. It is absolutely mine and I can do whatever I want. Suddenly, I realize that my Trendsetter has a key, which is not mine, but Kodak property. If I want this key, they will say NO NO NO this is Kodak dongle for a trained engineer. Therefore, I cannot make some tests for new plates etc. Isn't it strange? Anyway I fully paid the Trendsetter. It is a good machine, but ....
Best Regards
But I have very dummy question. I buy and pay a Trendsetter. It is absolutely mine and I can do whatever I want. Suddenly, I realize that my Trendsetter has a key, which is not mine, but Kodak property. If I want this key, they will say NO NO NO this is Kodak dongle for a trained engineer. Therefore, I cannot make some tests for new plates etc. Isn't it strange? Anyway I fully paid the Trendsetter. It is a good machine, but ....
Best Regards
PACH
Well-known member
Correct. You bought the Platesetter to output plates. They do NOT want you to make any changes to the system so they brought in the security Dongle that only Kodak engineers have. This only applies to the latest Magnus platesetters and Trendsetters. On the earlier machines you could make any changes that you wanted. It is a bit like when you buy a PC and you want a special Driver. You have to buy or if you are VERY good you can get it from other sources.
Dear PACH,
I am very curious about it. Consider the following case- I have a Trendsetter and it is absolutely mine (I paid everything to Kodak). I want to increase/decrease the laser power. Why I want to do this? Because the Trendsetter is MINE, not Kodak's! The answer is- call a service engineer and he/she will change what you want. But they will charge me a lot for service contract.... The same case is if I have a wardrobe and you have the key for it. Isn't it ridiculous? If I succeed to break the machine, Kodak engineer will come and charge me for the damage.
I am just considering a case...
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all Gents in the Forum!!!
I am very curious about it. Consider the following case- I have a Trendsetter and it is absolutely mine (I paid everything to Kodak). I want to increase/decrease the laser power. Why I want to do this? Because the Trendsetter is MINE, not Kodak's! The answer is- call a service engineer and he/she will change what you want. But they will charge me a lot for service contract.... The same case is if I have a wardrobe and you have the key for it. Isn't it ridiculous? If I succeed to break the machine, Kodak engineer will come and charge me for the damage.
I am just considering a case...
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all Gents in the Forum!!!
PACH
Well-known member
You have to be a trained engineer to use the software that drives the Thermal Head.
Hapyy Xmas a New Year to all.
Ozkan Hangisi
Well-known member
In Prosetter and in Suprasetter, user can adjust focus and laser power easily. Even Heidelberg sells its own saphira plates, user is free to set up any other plates. Adjustment procedure is not included in a diagnostic/service program. It is under engine manager and user interface without any password. Exposing and evaluating tests are very easy. And in my opinion this way is fair for a machine owner.
PACH
Well-known member
The software running the THead is not very user friendly so the customer could very easily damage it. It certainly would be better if everything you suggest could be done on all the manufacturers mavhines.
I have extensive experience with Screen platesetters. Everything is available to the customer, but if he manage to initialize all data, I charge him to recover everything. Why the same is not with Kodak? As the Lotems fiber head- you have two passwords for Service Engineer and Expert. They made the TH very complicated 
OkiTech
Well-known member
Hi Guys. The advise posted about "Better let the pro do it" is 100% good advice but I think the argument is that if one is in complete ownership of the device he/she must be provided with all passwords. He can take a hummer and smash it in trash without asking a permission but can't have a password. Lets say - you're the business owner and setting up the office, IT person(s) do you network, obviously set-up security passwords. So you paid for computers, servers, their services and everything else and regardless if you comfortable with computer or panic every time you see one, should you be entitled to have those passwords? I think you do...
Paint
Active member
People don't understand that these machines are like a piece of complex software.
You download the whole package but you can only run the modules you paid for.
Same here - you buy the hardware but you have to run it at the original specs. Upgrades are available if you pay for them.
Why is it so difficult to grasp the concept?
The exact same Trendsetter hardware can output 20pph or 40pph depending on the license....
About service access - can you guys access your car computer and alter settings? Is the software used in service shops free? Who would be responsible if you destroy the machine by playing with a service software? What if someone gets hurt?
The Creo Thermal head is extremely complex and setup is complicated especially for high quality and staccatto. Very few people even from Kodak service really understand it thoroughly... plus, it's only about 35k to replace...
If you own one of these machines I would advise you to trust only a guy that works for Kodak service or had previous training and a few good years of experience on them.
Even the questions about service dongles and access in this thread are dumb for the simple reason that every machine setting can be accessed without a service dongle.
If you don't know how, then don't ask - it means you don't know enough about these machines to touch them.
However, service access does not allow you to change the machine performance....not anymore. Creo decided to use dongles and license files to configure the machine performance. Only the old MPE and early MCE configurations can be changed with a password
You download the whole package but you can only run the modules you paid for.
Same here - you buy the hardware but you have to run it at the original specs. Upgrades are available if you pay for them.
Why is it so difficult to grasp the concept?
The exact same Trendsetter hardware can output 20pph or 40pph depending on the license....
About service access - can you guys access your car computer and alter settings? Is the software used in service shops free? Who would be responsible if you destroy the machine by playing with a service software? What if someone gets hurt?
The Creo Thermal head is extremely complex and setup is complicated especially for high quality and staccatto. Very few people even from Kodak service really understand it thoroughly... plus, it's only about 35k to replace...
If you own one of these machines I would advise you to trust only a guy that works for Kodak service or had previous training and a few good years of experience on them.
Even the questions about service dongles and access in this thread are dumb for the simple reason that every machine setting can be accessed without a service dongle.
If you don't know how, then don't ask - it means you don't know enough about these machines to touch them.
However, service access does not allow you to change the machine performance....not anymore. Creo decided to use dongles and license files to configure the machine performance. Only the old MPE and early MCE configurations can be changed with a password
Hi Nemo,
The question is general-why you think that other CTP systems are not as complex as Kodak devices. All of them are complex machines. But simple adjustments may be done by a skilled operator. I agree that some actions must be done only by a service engineers, but setting up another plate should not be under service password. There is a post with a guy that disassembled the laser head- it is not a good idea, not even for a service engineer. It does not matter how much costs the head. If I am the owner, I have paid it anyway. For the people that can be hurt? I can open the covers and to cheat the locks. I can get hurt myself without any problem on every one machine. It does not matter what is it, but it is not the purpose.
The question is very simple -why my machine is not fully open for me? If the productivity, staccato are altered just by a password, they must be protected, because I have not paid them. I agree. But why setting new type of plate is protected by password? There is no answer...
The question is general-why you think that other CTP systems are not as complex as Kodak devices. All of them are complex machines. But simple adjustments may be done by a skilled operator. I agree that some actions must be done only by a service engineers, but setting up another plate should not be under service password. There is a post with a guy that disassembled the laser head- it is not a good idea, not even for a service engineer. It does not matter how much costs the head. If I am the owner, I have paid it anyway. For the people that can be hurt? I can open the covers and to cheat the locks. I can get hurt myself without any problem on every one machine. It does not matter what is it, but it is not the purpose.
The question is very simple -why my machine is not fully open for me? If the productivity, staccato are altered just by a password, they must be protected, because I have not paid them. I agree. But why setting new type of plate is protected by password? There is no answer...
PACH
Well-known member
NEMO,
I agree 100% with your analogy to a car's electronics. You own the car but can not change anything that is driven by the electronics.
Complex software, lack of knowledge could easily damage the machine. What about safety? All these must have been taken into consideration.
What is the deal with parts
What is the deal with parts
I'm glad to see that Kodak is actively participating in this discussion. Can you help me understand why Kodak will not sell a customer a plastic part for a Trendsetter directly. They want about $800 for an "engineer" to come in and install it. The part probably costs about 50 cents to manufacture. It can be installed with one screw and you don't even have to remove a cover from the machine.
BTW anyone familiar with the Windows app hyperterminal. 9600-8-N-1
What is the deal with parts
I'm glad to see that Kodak is actively participating in this discussion. Can you help me understand why Kodak will not sell a customer a plastic part for a Trendsetter directly. They want about $800 for an "engineer" to come in and install it. The part probably costs about 50 cents to manufacture. It can be installed with one screw and you don't even have to remove a cover from the machine.
BTW anyone familiar with the Windows app hyperterminal. 9600-8-N-1
There is a big difference between what Creo used to be and what Kodak is from a service point of view.
People are mostly the same but upper management vision has changed significantly.
In the past, Creo provided service and parts to anyone, sometimes for free, and the focus was on quality and customer satisfaction, considering printing a time critical industry where any delay in service could bring significant damage to customer's business.
Service was provided with no delay to any customer - with service contract or not. Parts were plenty and stored in a few locations across US, with door to door and 4h onsite parts widely used. The service engineers were well trained and supported by remote and product development groups.
Kodak considered the commercial printing industry only a cash cow to fund their other divisions.
They stopped most R&D, moved production from Canada and Israel to China and Mexico, closed some plate manufacturing plants, virtually stopped training, laid off senior technicians, etc... They used Creo CTP's and workflows mostly to bundle their plates.
Service sector was also affected. Focus is now on revenue and profitability. While generally service is a cost which should be partially covered by the price of the product, Kodak is trying to make it a profitable business. Moving production overseas, practically closing R&D and laying off the best engineers inherently led to a drop in quality and increase of service cost.
Service workforce was reduced to a bare minimum, parts stock is minimal and stored in one location only, after hours and weekend support cancelled. No more overtime paid for field engineers and recently even their cars were taken away. They are supposed to buy their own cars, pay for insurance, maintenance and gas from a monthly $700 allowance before tax while in many instances they are covering more than one state.
Basically, a non contract customer now is heavily charged. Mandatory 30min remote support at $3.5/min or $10.5/min after hours, parts shipped ground (up to 7 days), delayed onsite minimum 3 days.... Parts can be shipped overnight and onsite next day for another $500 fee... adding here the cost of parts and onsite means that any incident that requires parts replacement will be at least $1500.
Customer is not allowed to replace any part anymore unless they have people trained by Creo/Kodak. Part of the reason for this policy is that we had a large number of parts returned as DOA while in fact the part was damaged by customer or found not to be the reason of the problem supposed to fix.
In some instances, the defective part was returned claiming it is the new one DOA - especially from 3rd party dealers.
The main reason however, is increasing profitability of service sector. While this is not a bad approach, the focus should be in increasing the quality, reliability and performance of products which in turn would reduce the service costs, but this is not something the corporate Kodak believes in.
People are mostly the same but upper management vision has changed significantly.
In the past, Creo provided service and parts to anyone, sometimes for free, and the focus was on quality and customer satisfaction, considering printing a time critical industry where any delay in service could bring significant damage to customer's business.
Service was provided with no delay to any customer - with service contract or not. Parts were plenty and stored in a few locations across US, with door to door and 4h onsite parts widely used. The service engineers were well trained and supported by remote and product development groups.
Kodak considered the commercial printing industry only a cash cow to fund their other divisions.
They stopped most R&D, moved production from Canada and Israel to China and Mexico, closed some plate manufacturing plants, virtually stopped training, laid off senior technicians, etc... They used Creo CTP's and workflows mostly to bundle their plates.
Service sector was also affected. Focus is now on revenue and profitability. While generally service is a cost which should be partially covered by the price of the product, Kodak is trying to make it a profitable business. Moving production overseas, practically closing R&D and laying off the best engineers inherently led to a drop in quality and increase of service cost.
Service workforce was reduced to a bare minimum, parts stock is minimal and stored in one location only, after hours and weekend support cancelled. No more overtime paid for field engineers and recently even their cars were taken away. They are supposed to buy their own cars, pay for insurance, maintenance and gas from a monthly $700 allowance before tax while in many instances they are covering more than one state.
Basically, a non contract customer now is heavily charged. Mandatory 30min remote support at $3.5/min or $10.5/min after hours, parts shipped ground (up to 7 days), delayed onsite minimum 3 days.... Parts can be shipped overnight and onsite next day for another $500 fee... adding here the cost of parts and onsite means that any incident that requires parts replacement will be at least $1500.
Customer is not allowed to replace any part anymore unless they have people trained by Creo/Kodak. Part of the reason for this policy is that we had a large number of parts returned as DOA while in fact the part was damaged by customer or found not to be the reason of the problem supposed to fix.
In some instances, the defective part was returned claiming it is the new one DOA - especially from 3rd party dealers.
The main reason however, is increasing profitability of service sector. While this is not a bad approach, the focus should be in increasing the quality, reliability and performance of products which in turn would reduce the service costs, but this is not something the corporate Kodak believes in.
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