Copier Sales and Tech Throw Down

[Kevin H]

Again, Xerox can do both resolutions. The fact is KM can not do the 2400X2400 and now is can't be as good.
Remember, Xerox had the 3535 and the DOC12 that did 600X600 8bit. Now 2400X2400 (which is closer to press output) is the new standard for Xerox. However, as I said before, we can still do both depending on what the customer/printer likes.

If anything, i will give you this.

Man you sure keep trying.
Good to see you stand behind your product no matter what.

i have said this in other posts, the FACTS have been spelled out and now it is up to the Customer.
We could go on forever about this and no one will "give in".

I agree with an earlier post, lets find a new topic, this one is becomg stale VERY fast.

 

[Keith]

Well it went about a page before it turned into a bit-measuring contest.

It was my fault. I asked about a C451 and that's when the pissing contest began, although, the words "Throw Down" are in the title of the thread. But I have to say this, in my search for a new machine, I have thrown out dpi as a deciding-factor. I have samples from a Xerox 700 (2400x2400) and a KM6500 (600x600) and I cannot tell the difference! I know for damn sure none of my customers will either. My Ilumina prints at 600x1200 and it's quality is nothing like the KM's 600x600 and it is far superior to my ir3220 and it is 600x600 too! I've decided that dpi is like horsepower: just because you have the most ponies, does not mean you are going to win the race. There are a bunch of other factors that go into the speed of the car- weight, transmission gearing, axle ratios, power curve, suspension, etc.

There. I ended it.

My Ilumina is great because it's paid-off, no lease payment!

Keith

 

[UberTech]

It was my fault. I asked about a C451 and that's when the pissing contest began, although, the words "Throw Down" are in the title of the thread. But I have to say this, in my search for a new machine, I have thrown out dpi as a deciding-factor. I have samples from a Xerox 700 (2400x2400) and a KM6500 (600x600) and I cannot tell the difference! I know for damn sure none of my customers will either. My Ilumina prints at 600x1200 and it's quality is nothing like the KM's 600x600 and it is far superior to my ir3220 and it is 600x600 too! I've decided that dpi is like horsepower: just because you have the most ponies, does not mean you are going to win the race. There are a bunch of other factors that go into the speed of the car- weight, transmission gearing, axle ratios, power curve, suspension, etc.

There. I ended it.

My Ilumina is great because it's paid-off, no lease payment!

Keith

No, it's not your fault. It's whoever brings up the interpolated 2400x2400 line.

 

[GregNac19]

No, it's not your fault. It's whoever brings up the interpolated 2400x2400 line.

I wanted to start this thread so we could toot our own horns and TRY to leave the other threads alone. Almost every thing we said in this thread has been recycled 15 times in this forum. It still can be fun though.
However, sorry Ubertech for bringing up the 2400X2400. You know in your heart if you had the capability to do this, you would speak how great it is!

 

[Kevin H]

I wanted to start this thread so we could toot our own horns and TRY to leave the other threads alone. Almost every thing we said in this thread has been recycled 15 times in this forum. It still can be fun though.
However, sorry Ubertech for bringing up the 2400X2400. You know in your heart if you had the capability to do this, you would speak how great it is!

OMG!
finally a post that made me actually laugh out loud.
If it was actually NEEDED we would have it.

 

[che.c]

 

[Keith]

LOL!!!!!! Holy crap!!!!!! che.c, that is hilarious!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[GregNac19]

Thank you for letting me be DUKE. They are awesome!

 

[UberTech]

Konica guy is taller.

 

[GregNac19]

Konica guy is taller.

Duke fans know Tyler as a cry baby.

 

[sweatyclimber]

Well done GusG.
I VERY compreshensive and accurate post.
Here at KM we have an INTERNAL document which really explains why interpolation is bad.
Of course we save this document for future customers only.

once it is explained it is quite easy to see through the "smoke".

We also have a GREAT test file here that totally debunks the "jagged edges" that the interpolation "addresses".
This is not an issue for us here, in fact we look forward to this topic coming up with conversations with futur customers.

Again, well done everyone.

as someone who's worked for & sold KM & Xerox... I have to stop this there...I would have trouble believing KM is "debunking" interpolations considering they launched and "loved" their FEETS & METS technologies which spoke to interpolation & why it was good for getting rid of jaged edges... Hard to believe they'd claim their own R&D as "debunked".

On a similar topic... SERIOUSLY... neither 8bit or 2400dpi make it better. They each excel at different applications & both company's machines make very nice color. But ultimately its percieved beauty is in the eye of the beholder... heck I had a customer tell me Kyocera color is better then Canon, Xerox, KM or Richo back when business color was just emerging... and we all know that at that time those machines sucked!

Now if you wanna talk cool try this... Another brand I represent - Sharp production has been going from PM to PM+ between service calls... Granted its just B&W but it sure has made me have a doubletake.... AND it makes bagle bites!

 

[Keith]

Bagel bites! I have got to tell my friend about that! He runs 3 Sharp b&w and he'll do a quarter million copies between the 3 in a single weekend with only 4 jams! He has millions of copies on those machines. I just had him print some flyers for me that were graphically intense with a lot of gradients, halftones and solids; and boy did they look great!

Keith

 

[UberTech]

as someone who's worked for & sold KM & Xerox... I have to stop this there...I would have trouble believing KM is "debunking" interpolations considering they launched and "loved" their FEETS & METS technologies which spoke to interpolation & why it was good for getting rid of jaged edges... Hard to believe they'd claim their own R&D as "debunked".

On a similar topic... SERIOUSLY... neither 8bit or 2400dpi make it better. They each excel at different applications & both company's machines make very nice color. But ultimately its percieved beauty is in the eye of the beholder... heck I had a customer tell me Kyocera color is better then Canon, Xerox, KM or Richo back when business color was just emerging... and we all know that at that time those machines sucked!

Now if you wanna talk cool try this... Another brand I represent - Sharp production has been going from PM to PM+ between service calls... Granted its just B&W but it sure has made me have a doubletake.... AND it makes bagle bites!

FEETS & METS? Must have been in the stone age before I turned up. The interpolation that I know of was to do with image processing from the scanner as the conversion always has something lacking. Hands up who uses\has a scanner on there printer?

 

[sweatyclimber]

FEETS & METS? Must have been in the stone age before I turned up. The interpolation that I know of was to do with image processing from the scanner as the conversion always has something lacking. Hands up who uses\has a scanner on there printer?

Not quite the stone age... maybe your a new hire? It was orginally launched with the C350 & has remained a part of their technology since.

 

[sweatyclimber]

Bagel bites! I have got to tell my friend about that! He runs 3 Sharp b&w and he'll do a quarter million copies between the 3 in a single weekend with only 4 jams! He has millions of copies on those machines. I just had him print some flyers for me that were graphically intense with a lot of gradients, halftones and solids; and boy did they look great!

Keith

Yeah I have to admit, we didn't expect this much from them, but they are fantastic machines... It reminds me of an analog copier they made the SD2060... still can't get some of those out of the field. Arg! ...but they just run and run and run... nice to have a product like that to stand behind.

 

[GregNac19]

as someone who's worked for & sold KM & Xerox... I have to stop this there...I would have trouble believing KM is "debunking" interpolations considering they launched and "loved" their FEETS & METS technologies which spoke to interpolation & why it was good for getting rid of jaged edges... Hard to believe they'd claim their own R&D as "debunked".

This is as funny as it gets UBER.

 

[UberTech]

Not quite the stone age... maybe your a new hire? It was orginally launched with the C350 & has remained a part of their technology since.

Oh, an office machine......who cares.

Our KM online learning on refers to MTF compensation and error diffusion. I will check the manual for the terms you mention.

 

[sweatyclimber]

Uber, I believe from your posts your a very good tech... so save yourself the work... If you look at production bw DPI in the detail spec's or BLI it shows 600x1800 but specs show it as 6x6... thats interpolation. It's only used on KM's black, but it is for the purpose of non-jagged lines etc. the "METS" if i remember right, would split the pixal into 4 quadrants for color and black. Also... the Fiery has tools for this so any machine w/ one has the interpolation options.