Creative Cloud thoughts

[amybest222]

Adobe Creative Cloud | Adobe.com
with the release of Adobe's Creative Cloud updates .. does anyone know if a file created in "CC" will open in the now legacy CS6? (especially Indd.) or is this but yet another reason to push print service providers to upgrade–
with having to be able to open clients files? thoughts

 

[naplajoie2000]

My thoughts...I work in a commercial print environment, that along with our digital stations, have 16 CS installs. We are part of a large corporation, and I hope that there is a way that we will get licensing through that. Subscription based software is something I have my reservations on in our environment. Why must Adobe feel it must fix something that isn't really broken. We are not all web designers who work rgb, some of us still like to put ink on paper!

 

[Lukas Engqvist]

All CC subscribers will have access to CS6. If you are "just" outputting then it is tough with a CC account as well… there is the option to ask for print ready PDF's but we all know that customers are not becoming better at making files for print with all distractions of digital-, cross- and web-publishing. So no the files will not be able to be opened in CS6, but need to be back saved for that version.

I think there is things that can be done for print, but we need to be more to voice the benefits of being able to measure TAC/TOC (like in InDesign and Acrobat) even in Illustrator and Photoshop. That we want to be able to decide what GCR settings we want for any image from within InDesign, and/or in Photoshop (and Illustrator). Have the colour converter from Acrobat in Illustrator so that we can preserve black as K when converting from RGB to CMYK.

It is important not to just say that there are not enough features for print, but to verbalise what features/frustrations we would like to have addressed. And send them as feature requests. Maybe web and digital publishers are better at expressing their needs in a way that Adobe can understand it.

To lease software Adobe is not first, let's hope they will be the first to be more reasonable in honouring long term loyal users.

 

[Hopkins Printing]

The following is taken directly from the CC FAQ page on Adobe's website:

Can the new CC applications export to CS6?

Many of the Creative Cloud desktop applications provide the ability to export files to the Creative Suite 6 version of that same application. Creative Suite 6 products are available via a perpetual software license. Adobe plans to continue to support the ability to export to Creative Suite 6 in the applications that have that capability now. New features added to the desktop applications after Creative Suite 6 may not be supported in the exported file, or by the Creative Suite 6 application.

Which CC application support export to CS6?

The following applications support the ability to export to the CS6 version of the application: Photoshop, InDesign®, Illustrator, Flash® Professional, Dreamweaver® Applications not listed here may not support exporting to Creative Suite 6, and may not do so in future releases. New features added to the above list after Creative Suite 6 may not be supported in the exported file, or by the Creative Suite 6 application.

 

[mjetzer]

I'm thinking this is going to backfire on Adobe to some degree. I would for a large corporation, this isn't a big deal for us. In fact, our IT will love it. Set cost, fees, easy to manage, etc, updates just happen. I feel it going to hurt the mid to small size groups that don't have IT departments. The backfire is the need to connect, a lot of large organization and printers have every strict rules about outside access. Having to "phone home" is not going to go over well. The sad this is there really aren't any viable alternatives to the adobe suite.

 

[gordo]

The move has infuriated photographers. At least Adobe responded to them:
Photoshop CC: Adobe responds to reaction: Digital Photography Review

Best, gordo

 

[zoran]

This effectively doubles the price of CS for us, we are Volume License buyer.
As Print provider we do not need bells and whistles of web that they are offering you with CC.
It just seems that Adobe thinks about Print Providers only as small, negligible group that is not important.
This has to backfire, I know I will be first to start pushing for PDF's ony and support up to CS6.
We were already thinking of killing support for Quark due to issues with it, I guess Adobe CC is next.

 

[brent]

And what's to prevent Adobe from raising their prices, after a year or so? You think you are held hostage now....Just wait. I am staying right where I am.

CS6 for life! LOL

 

[wonderings]

And what's to prevent Adobe from raising their prices, after a year or so? You think you are held hostage now....Just wait. I am staying right where I am.

CS6 for life! LOL

We will be doing the same, or at least as long as we can. I don't want to rent software.

 

[leonardr]

This effectively doubles the price of CS for us, we are Volume License buyer.

In what way? How are you doing the math on this?

As Print provider we do not need bells and whistles of web that they are offering you with CC.

That may well be, but consider some of the things that you DO get with CC that you don't currently have
- FREE ACCESS to the ENTIRE Adobe Font Library! No more "Where is that font"?
- 20G of free cloud storage! No more managing your own FTP or other servers for client communication.
- ALWAYS up to date. No more worrying about making sure your clients can't send you files that you can't open.

This has to backfire, I know I will be first to start pushing for PDF's ony

Never thought that would be a reaction, but _I_ think it's a GREAT idea!

 

[brent]

Leonard…

How could it be a great idea?

Once this program gets established and people get on board they will be held hostage to any price increase Adobe chooses to make. There will now be NO option other than to pay Adobe as your software will cease to exist if a company chooses to opt out of the cloud program due to price increases. And once that happens all legacy files will be trash as they probably will not work with CS6 in the future after a few upgrades.

As to the Bells and whistles… I would think most printers already own the Adobe font library. Will we be refunded the $1800 dollars that we paid for it? I doubt it.

Also most companies already have FTP in place, what is there to manage?

I just do not see ANY benefit for a printer. Am I missing something?

 

[almaink]

Most of us have been using Adobes applications since the beginning and have become set in our ways when it comes to how we run our businesses. We like to buy not rent for one thing. First Adobe dropped the Partners Program, now this. I for one don't like the idea that I no longer own my software and can no longer make decisions on when to update it. I personally could be working just fine in CS2 forever if it wasn't for customers getting new versions that in reality have nothing you really need to make or print a business card, letterhead, or envelope. Maybe you guys at Adobe could sell us print shops a prepress app that could do everything we need without all the bells and whistles we don't need, or a bundle for less money that doesn't have the web apps, or storage space, we don't need for a yearly fee. Monthly payment are a PITA.

 

[dabob]

I cant find where we get access to the font library . . . I do see some reference to the webfont library though . . ..

 

[mazengh]

If adobe is serious about this and it doesn't consider the complaints, I will only get one user account for the cloud in order to be able to modify client files if they send it that way, and all in house design will stay on CS6 forever until some other company comes up with something better.

 

[Point918]

This purely a financially driven decision by Adobe. In the stagnate to slow growth market they are in, very similar to ours, profit and growth are down. Their income and cash flow swing widely between new releases hence they have always had pressure to release new versions. With a steady stream of rental income what pressure will they have to release useful new features? Figure that into your rent versus buy cost analysis.
Also most will agree the last 3 or 4 full releases have few new features for print providers that justify the expense.

I see this as possibly becoming a large headache for our industry. The past 10 years the number of applications we needed to buy and master has been shrinking slightly with Adobe's dominance. Now some of our customers will embrace CC, many others will migrate to new or existing but little used applications thereby forcing us to support both camps and absorb the associated costs. That said some competition is what this market desperately needs. Don't count on it as growth in mobile and web get all the attention and resources.

A PDF standard may work for some but I doubt many of you can solve all the challenges & problems you face daily editing PDF's - I surely cannot in packaging.

The complete Adobe font library? Useful but hardly a comprehensive solution to missing fonts - thousand of non Adobe fonts being used daily.

 

[rich apollo]

There is some ugly vitriol about this being tossed around on other forums. Change is always met by resistance, but hopefully folks can keep their heads. That kind of discourse is never productive.

I think there are pricing models out there that would satisfy Adobe and the end users. EFI is moving to a yearly maintenance contract that includes all updates - no more upgrades will be sold. The contract cost is very reasonable. If you don't sign on for the next year's maintenance agreement, you receive no updates, or support, but your software continues to run. More than a year out of contract and you have to pay full price for up-to-date software. Doesn't seem unreasonable. I would rather see Adobe adopt a model like that.

 

[SlaveToTheMan]

The move has infuriated photographers. At least Adobe responded to them:
Photoshop CC: Adobe responds to reaction: Digital Photography Review

Best, gordo

If only the Print Industry had a governing body or powerful group that could do the same for us.

 

[gordo]

Even Hitler has weighed in on the issue:

Hitler learns about Adobe's new Creative Cloud model. - YouTube

Gordo

 

[toronar]

In what way? How are you doing the math on this?

I am not zoran, but I do work in a commercial print shop and we use design standard (photoshop, illustrator, indesign, acrobat):
cost of upgrade to newest version: ~600 EUR per seat every ~18 months (so far) == 33,33 EUR / month
cost of creative cloud: 64,99 EUR / month per seat

I do see a difference of ~30 EUR / month per seat.
The bells and whistles of online storage, fonts ... do not apply to us, as we do host things ourselves (and with a size requirements of 1TB the mentioned 20GB or 100GB for teams would not be an option anyway) and we bought the fonts we require as well. Fonts from customers are sent along with their files so that we can print them.

That may well be, but consider some of the things that you DO get with CC that you don't currently have
- FREE ACCESS to the ENTIRE Adobe Font Library! No more "Where is that font"?

We "own" Adobe Font Library already.

- 20G of free cloud storage! No more managing your own FTP or other servers for client communication.

As I already said, we do need to store about 1TB / month. This 1TB is always changing, but the overall size stays roughly the same per month.

- ALWAYS up to date. No more worrying about making sure your clients can't send you files that you can't open.

Even more worrying.
As there are not enough details for some kind of versioning scheme yet, I'll assume current year as version number.

Client sends file from InDesign CC 2013.
We open in InDesign CC 2014 and get a new text flow due to a redesigned text layout engine or new hyphen rules.

Or, for more "fun": there were some bugs in InDesign CS3 when you exported tables to PDF. These were resolved in CS4 and up; which means if we do get a file from CS3, we have to open it in CS3 so that the layout "stays" the same.

Now imagine that with a CC version and let's say 2 "version upgrades" per year ... 3 years down the road when not every customer did upgrade.

Never thought that would be a reaction, but _I_ think it's a GREAT idea!

I agree, that would be best. But some customers are simply not comfortable with exporting to PDF. We tried to teach them, we gave them settings, visited on site, showed them in 1on1 sessions - nothing could be done to get them to export as PDF. They update their CS sporadically.


One other thing that makes me extremely nervous: what if Adobe decides to stop doing business with me? I lose the ability to open and edit my files. In that regard I am totally dependant on Adobe's goodwill after I use CC versions of InDesign.

BTW I really look forward to what 3rd party plugin authors will have to say to CC versions. Some plugins get updated roughly a year after a new version of InDesign was released. I wonder how they will stay in business when updates are released more often and most users update early. Also I'd like to see how publishing systems like K4 and woodwing react this development. Interesting times ahead!

Kind regards,
Lars Pisanec

 

[leonardr]

FREE ACCESS to the ENTIRE Adobe Font Library!

My colleague, Dov, pointed out that we won't be making the ENTIRE library available at this time. However, we most certainly are going to be working towards that as our goal over time. So just as you will obtain new feature of our apps during your subscription, you will also be able to access more and more fonts as well.

Sorry for any confusion on that point.