Cutter dust/rough edging?

Mstrkey

Member
I have an old challege manual cutter in my shop. I use it for a lot of small jobs because I can make some really precise cuts when I have manual control of the blade. I've used this machine for oh......15 years now without issues.

Lately I have a problem with what I call "dust". It seems when I cut my stock the clamp side of the stock cuts nice and clean. The operator side of the same cut is rougher and there is a lot of what I call paper dust stuck to the edge of the stack. I can't for the life of me figure out why this happens. How can the blade cut clean on one side of the stock and not so clean on the other side?

It's not so much of a problem on jobs with a bleed because I can just keep the rough side on the waste edge but I don't have this option on every job.

Has anyone ever had this problem before? My stock type doesn't seem to matter and it will even happen on sheets I've uv coated. It's less of a problem on text weights but it's still there.

I haven't changed anything about this cutter in ages so I don't get it.
 
FatBoy is on track. Often times a dull blade will give you results like you are describing. Even if the blade feels sharp to you, its probably not.
 
Hi Mstrkey

Your eyes are good - the blade is bad. You see a normal physical reaction of a cutter.

Please imagine a wedge going through something thick. Let’s say you force a big chisel through a piece of wood with a thickness of half an inch (1.25 cm). You put the wood on the floor and you force the chisel vertical into the wood. The chisel will enter the wood. And after entering a bit, you get across to the wedge (now horizontal) extreme high forces. These will either forth the wood to collapse at the angled side of the chisel (never at the straight side) or the wood will be torn into two parts. If you cut in your cutting machine thick board and you check the edges using a lens you will see this physical reaction as well.

When cutting paper you have different factors helping or damaging the cut.

Angle of blade
Assuming you would have a blade with an angle of zero degree you would never see a difference between the cutting edge behind and in front of the knife. Assuming you would have a blade with an angle of ninety degree. Booooooooooom - no further explanation necessary …… At the end you have to trust in the experience of the cutter supplier, the feedback of other customers to your knife grinder (his experience) or people like me how show up as clever. The correct angle would be today 23 or 24 degree.

Sharpness of blade
As sharper the blade as less trouble you have (up to a certain point). Doll means, the blades has already a radius at the front. If you picture a radius, you have any angle from 90 degree down to the grinded angle (maybe 23 degree).

Design of the cutter
Modern cutters have a downward and sidewise moving knife. This gives you two functions in one motion. The vertical way through the material is the cutting like using the chisel. The sidewise movement gives you something like a saw. If the knife is fresh and the blade looks nice polished it is just the opposite. The blade is ruff from the honing stone (last function during the grinding process). We cannot see this, but the knife works like an ultra-fine micro saw. The knife cuts nice and you may hear a little sound. If the knife is doll, the blade has a radius and is polished by hundreds of cuts. The blade will be no more a saw. The blade is no more cutting, the blade is squeezing. The cut is ruff and the nice sound is gone. Maybe you even hear a bang during cutting the last sheets.

Type of blade
As harder the blade itself is, as better it cuts during the diagonal movement of the knife.
If you use the standard knife (Sweden steel) or a knife with chromium, the blade is relatively soft. This means the maybe cuts for a short time okay, but quick you deflection and a rough cut.
The next better knife is high speed steel. This knifes can be used for all jobs and they do a good work.
The sharpest blade is tungsten, because the saw effect is better working. And this knife stays much longer, because the particles are harder. But tungsten blades are fragile like glass.

Internal pulling strength of the paper
As better the binding of the individual fibers is, as less trouble you have with the cutting edge in front of the knife. And the type of fibers as well as the direction (!) of fibers chances a lot. The internal pulling strength is roughly 1 to 3 in relation to the direction of the fibers.

Thickness of material
The angle (wedge) of the knife gives you more problems if the material in the cutter is thicker (sheet thickness not pile height). The specialists say that a knife can cut a third of the sheet like we understand or watch a cut. The middle part is a zone between cutting and braking. And the last third is just braking. But because paper is very thin, you don’t see anything from the braking zone.

Age of paper
Yes, yes, as older the paper as higher is the loss of the internal strength. This may start with an age of five to ten years (depending on the type of paper).

I hope answers your question (I can't for the life of me figure out why this happens.)

Have fun
Coloured paper
 
Hmmm. I've been getting the blades sharpened regularly as always but I have been cutting a lot more high gloss and UV coated card stock than usual. Perhaps they've just gotten too dull a lot quicker than usual?

I tried cutting some basic business cards on the opposite side of the blade that I normally use, since that part get used a lot less. The result was a bit less "dust" than usual, which tells me you're all probably on the right track. I'm going to get my blade supply resharpened. I may just have to increase the frequency to compensate for the tougher stock.

Thanks. :)
 
You can try a different knife grinder as well. Then you know which one is better. There are huge differences!
 
I know this thread is old, but just a recap. The problem still persists. Blade angle adjusted, blades re-sharpened by a different company on some serious equipment. No real change at all. I'm running everything oversized so I can cut off the excess around the edges. This is the only way I can get smooth edges anymore. The clamp side of the cut is perfect, the user side of the same cut is dusty and rough. I'll have to look into the Tungsten Carbide blades. Do they require any special equipment to sharpen?
 
With all 4 of my blades, yes. I can get slightly better results with some types of stock but it's pretty much always there.

I'm wondering if the blade is skewing (from the perspective of the operator) front to back. I've seen a machine where the blade articulation had developed a touch of play and it didn't come down flush with the foot consistently. It did something similar. Once we purchased a new machine that took the same blades it was gone.

Perhaps it could be tightened up a bit?

Just a guess on all of it.
 
hmmm

hmmm

I'm wondering if the blade is skewing (from the perspective of the operator) front to back. I've seen a machine where the blade articulation had developed a touch of play and it didn't come down flush with the foot consistently. It did something similar. Once we purchased a new machine that took the same blades it was gone.

Perhaps it could be tightened up a bit?

Just a guess on all of it.

Well when I look at the foot, the groove is pretty tight. Of course that's at the very bottom, there may be some skew as it goes up and down. It is a pretty old machine so that's not totally out of reason. I'l have to look a little closer and see.


As for Tungsten carbide blades, I already have a hard enough time getting these ones sharpened lol. I'll ask the guy doing them now if he's equipped for that type of blade. That may be my last ditch effort. Or a new cutter period.
 
You will ALWAYS get a cleaner cut from the back of the blade than from the bevel side. Cut some chipboard and see. That's why you have gutters between bleeds so you always back cut the job.
 
dust

dust

You will ALWAYS get a cleaner cut from the back of the blade than from the bevel side. Cut some chipboard and see. That's why you have gutters between bleeds so you always back cut the job.

I understand that but not every job needs a bleed. For example, business cards on plain white card with a white background. I shouldn't need to put a bleed on a simple job like that normally. I only do it now to keep it clean. I never had to do that before. :/
 
Hi Mstrkey!

I would be slowly with changing the cutter.
You wrote:" I already have a hard enough time getting these ones sharpened lol." This sounds a bit crazy. Sorry for my words but a knife grinder is a normal company which should do a good job everywhere in this world. I could not find any information about your home town. Maybe there is a different knife grinder available.

Buntpapier
 
I think that it is the quality of the paper & fiber strength. I've notice over the last several that you get the dust more and more also. We have become accustomed to doing a back trim on almost every thing or plan out the cutting better to allow the finish edge to always be inside the cutter. You can chase your tail with blade sharpening, bevels & dual edges, without any difference to the finish cut.
 
Hi rking!

The binding of the fibers is a very important factor. This is definitely true. Another factor is the sawing effect during cutting. The knife does not just move straight downward. It is moving sidewise as well. If the blade is row and not sharp you get dust as well. For this the honing after grinding is important. You can try one time a different knife grinder to see the difference. An alternative is a different knife which is sharper in general. This means instead of standard steel you try HSS-steel and instead of HSS-steel you try carbide.

I agree with you. The different knife angle does not really affect the sharpness of a knife. And you are right as well if it come to the dual edges. A dual edge (or double bevel) is for cutting big sizes into two and is not affecting the cut of the material.

Coloured paper
 

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