Digital printer/press for book covers

[RobertK]

Funny you should ask. I am at this very moment I'm working with a company who is digitally printing book covers--personalized/variable data. And we're laminating. The press is an Indigo, web version. In my experience the Indigo is the only digital press to date to give a real offset litho look. I know, there are many fans of the iGen, NextPress, etc., and they are great machines, but their output still looks no better than an office xerographic printer to me--not that this is a terrible thing.

Here's a possible problem, and one that I am working on: Size. These digital presses are very limited in width--this Indigo being only 12" or so, which means we can't run the covers for the larger books. This leaves inkjet as the only alternative for variable data. Not a problem on quality, but the consumables cost is high: only certain papers will meet the criteria of image quality and glue adhesion (which means uncoated back side), and they are not cheap. Neither is the ink. On the other hand, if you amortize the cost of a digital press over a few thousand covers that printing is pretty darn expensive too.

Mike Strickler
MSP Graphic Services

The Indigo is way out of our price range. And we are totally not into the variable data at the moment.. Our current work just isnt enough to make such a machine profitable. And for the same $ you have a fully loaded second hand 4 color offset press which you can use for 10 years.. We are at a point of not knowing what to do or invest in. Also comparing offset with digital.

And indeed, size is also a problem. Currently we manage though with 13 x 19,2 inch on DC250.

And Inkjet...thats a ways ahead before i wont even faint on the pricetag on one of those. And saw the one from Screen at Drupa. Its fast, but still falls short in quality.

Robert

 

[TWinqvist]

MGI's Meteor DP60

MGI's Meteor DP60

You should look at Meteor DP60 digital color press from MGI. It has some good adcantages for printing book covers like, size, quality and duplex registeration.

Site officiel du constructeur de presses numériques et solutions de finition Presse numérique couleur multi-substrats & multi-supports, papier, plastique & enveloppe Solutions de finition pour l'industrie de la carte plastique et pour les Arts Graphi

 

[RobertK]

You should look at Meteor DP60 digital color press from MGI. It has some good adcantages for printing book covers like, size, quality and duplex registeration.

Site officiel du constructeur de presses numériques et solutions de finition Presse numérique couleur multi-substrats & multi-supports, papier, plastique & enveloppe Solutions de finition pour l'industrie de la carte plastique et pour les Arts Graphi

Interesting...didnt know they had a new machine. I have had a demo of the DP40 few years ago, weird looking thing. Def not up to scratch with the competition in terms of quality. But if the machine suits your applications like plastic and stuff its great.

But what kind of quality does the DP60 provide? And its looks expensive...the DP40 was already twice the price of what i thought it was ;-)

 

[TWinqvist]

The quality is very good totally different than DP40. They have FOGRA certification for DP60 and there is a lot of new features in it. Just call your nearest distributor and ask them to give you a great demo.

 

[RobertK]

The quality is very good totally different than DP40. They have FOGRA certification for DP60 and there is a lot of new features in it. Just call your nearest distributor and ask them to give you a great demo.

Any idea in what price league it is compared to other machines?

 

[TWinqvist]

The price always the question? Compared to other it is expensive but when compared to what you can do with it then it's not so expensive. Maximum sheet size 330x650 mm, textured substrates, plastics, envelopes etc. Can you do it all with any other available machine than offset? No, okay you can have Xante for envelopes, Xerox or KM for sheets and covers, Océ for textured substrates but then you have three or four machines with different features, service contracts and clicks.

Well thats my opinion, like Frank Romano would say!

 

[RobertK]

The price always the question? Compared to other it is expensive but when compared to what you can do with it then it's not so expensive. Maximum sheet size 330x650 mm, textured substrates, plastics, envelopes etc. Can you do it all with any other available machine than offset? No, okay you can have Xante for envelopes, Xerox or KM for sheets and covers, Océ for textured substrates but then you have three or four machines with different features, service contracts and clicks.

Well thats my opinion, like Frank Romano would say!

The price is always the question when there is a budget of what is realistic to invest. If a print comes out to be 3 times as expensive for the price i now outsource...

OK you do alot of other things on the machines, but that is not our application.
Our application is pretty easy....we just want optimum quality on a 250-300 grs piece of paper at a realistic ROI.

If we see other applications and oppertunities in the future, thats another thing. But for the here and now...a 250k printer is not really an option ;-)

 

[TWinqvist]

Thats true but the price is a lot less than that ;-).

 

[RobertK]

Thats true but the price is a lot less than that ;-).

How much less? ;-)

 

[TWinqvist]

About 100K less! ;-o

 

[pschill2]

Our company is currently in debate investing in a digital press for book covers. All of our bussiness is books. Offset printing and digital printing.

Currently we outsource 100% of our OFFSET full color covers. A full colour offset press is just to much of an investment, and we dont have enough work for one. And we see print runs drop, for us an average print run is around 300.

So our goal is to digitally print 98% of the offset full color work we now outsource.

Currently we have a Xerox DC250 for about 3 years now. Quality is OK. But customers pay for a 'digitally printed book'.

We have been testing with a Xerox 700. Output looks great. But after i gave them some files to fool around with....it really wasnt what we expected. Sure it is better as the DC250. But not a machine managing 95% of offset quality.
Mainly there are issues with subtle shades, gradients and certain colours. Stuff that SEEMS easy.

What machines could deliver the quality we want? The really expensive ones not included...like the Indigo, iGen or Nexpress ;-)

Thanks in advance!

Robert

Hi Robert,
Have you considered a reconditioned KODAK NexPress. You may be surprised how affordable they are these days. Reconditioned NexPress presses go through the same battery of QA and calibration routines as the new presses off the line. I don't think any other supplier can claim the ability to upgrade their customers to the latest technologies and advancements, such as Kodak's newest SE-class NexPress presses, to even its oldest units and reconditioned units? You're usually subject to a 'forklift upgrade' with all other suppliers. Its the best program in the industry to make the most of your original investment.

If any further interest, give me your location and I'll provide the contact information for the account manager in your area.

Best Regards,
Paul

 

[RobertK]

Hi Robert,
Have you considered a reconditioned KODAK NexPress. You may be surprised how affordable they are these days. Reconditioned NexPress presses go through the same battery of QA and calibration routines as the new presses off the line. I don't think any other supplier can claim the ability to upgrade their customers to the latest technologies and advancements, such as Kodak's newest SE-class NexPress presses, to even its oldest units and reconditioned units? You're usually subject to a 'forklift upgrade' with all other suppliers. Its the best program in the industry to make the most of your original investment.

If any further interest, give me your location and I'll provide the contact information for the account manager in your area.

Best Regards,
Paul

Paul, that sounds very interesting. So your basically saying i can buy a 4 year old NexPress refurbished to specs wise a current model?
This is also in Europe? as i am from Holland.

 

[Mike Strickler]

Paul, that sounds very interesting. So your basically saying i can buy a 4 year old NexPress refurbished to specs wise a current model?
This is also in Europe? as i am from Holland.

Problem is, NexPress output doesn't look like offset, at least not to me. And even a refurb is a lot of money. What about a second-hand direct-imaging press? Those give offset quality because they are offset, and they have fast makeready, and don't take up much space.

 

[dtamminga]

The Hp Indigo presses have excellent quality, but I would definitely laminate, due to scratching the print, especially on a book cover.

 

[RobertK]

The Hp Indigo presses have excellent quality, but I would definitely laminate, due to scratching the print, especially on a book cover.

Currently we have nowhere near the amount of work needed for an Indigo. Id love to though...quality is great.

 

[halmac]

We have an Océ 655 and the color is fantastic. The finish is a nice satin type finish, not glossy or matte. We took a bunch of covers to a trade show and got them to coat them using UV coating and lamination. If you get a UV coater, make sure it has the IR preheat attachment. Konica Minolta/Oce 655 toners need to preheated for the UV coating to stick. Lamination is beautiful. The KM/Oce printers handles solids much better than our old 3535.

 

[Chris Manley]

Book Cover Press To The Stars

Book Cover Press To The Stars

Good Evening Gents,

Having read with interest the discussion of book cover production that has been going on lately i would like to introduce an alternative press that hasn't been mentioned.
In the world of book cover production there are several "must haves" which include 1) adequate sheet and image size to accomidate not only the traditional cover size but also the increasing popular fold-in flaps (travel books with maps, "about the author" and "also written by" pages etc.) , 2) offset look and feel to avoid the lumpy oily look of most digital output, 3) smooth solids and sharp halftones, 4) no cracking when scored, 5) ability to apply both UV coating and lamination with smooth offset look and feel, 6) precise register so that spines and book blocks match up or in case spot coating, embossing or foil stamping are required and 7) color consistency since books tend to be stacked in a way that makes color shifts more noticeable than many other printing applications.
The capabilities of the MGI Meteor DP-60Pro meet and exceed each of these attributes and in fact we can offer a DP-60Pro with an in-line coater to apply either matte or gloss UV coating, in-line laminating, a max production sheet size of 13 X 40" and even in-line channel scoring to provide a finished cover that has scoring up and down for proper flap, hinge, and spin scoring in the correct orientation.
Then if the author/publisher would like to add spot UV coating to the cover the MGI JetVarnish can provide fully digital spot UV coating in high-gloss, gloss and matte finish on sheets up to 20 X 29" in either a 0 make-ready or truly variable data process.
All in all the MGI Meteor DP-60Pro offers the best book cover production method in the digital world and if you need more info please feel free to inquire.

 

[RobertK]

Good Evening Gents,

Having read with interest the discussion of book cover production that has been going on lately i would like to introduce an alternative press that hasn't been mentioned.
In the world of book cover production there are several "must haves" which include 1) adequate sheet and image size to accomidate not only the traditional cover size but also the increasing popular fold-in flaps (travel books with maps, "about the author" and "also written by" pages etc.) , 2) offset look and feel to avoid the lumpy oily look of most digital output, 3) smooth solids and sharp halftones, 4) no cracking when scored, 5) ability to apply both UV coating and lamination with smooth offset look and feel, 6) precise register so that spines and book blocks match up or in case spot coating, embossing or foil stamping are required and 7) color consistency since books tend to be stacked in a way that makes color shifts more noticeable than many other printing applications.
The capabilities of the MGI Meteor DP-60Pro meet and exceed each of these attributes and in fact we can offer a DP-60Pro with an in-line coater to apply either matte or gloss UV coating, in-line laminating, a max production sheet size of 13 X 40" and even in-line channel scoring to provide a finished cover that has scoring up and down for proper flap, hinge, and spin scoring in the correct orientation.
Then if the author/publisher would like to add spot UV coating to the cover the MGI JetVarnish can provide fully digital spot UV coating in high-gloss, gloss and matte finish on sheets up to 20 X 29" in either a 0 make-ready or truly variable data process.
All in all the MGI Meteor DP-60Pro offers the best book cover production method in the digital world and if you need more info please feel free to inquire.

You are totally correct on all those 'must haves'. Just that i have seen a DP 40 before, and the quality was not that good. Especially not in the things you mentioning. BUT that 3 years ago.
But in what price range is the DP60 compared to other machines?? Before i go call a supplier and wasting my time because it is as expensive as a Nexpress..Indigo and the like.

 

[TWinqvist]

Okay RobertK,

I've mentioned about DB60 earlier and I also send you a personal message with the price that we have in Finland and it should be the same in Holland, I quess. How are you compering the prices? Indigo is between (new) 200.000 € - 500.000 € depending what model you want, NexPress 2100 - 3600 are beginning from 250.000 €, NexPress M700 is about 185.000 € and iGen4 is between you and them! ;-)

What comes to color, the Indigo and Meteor DB60 have the same Fogra certification so I would say the quality is there also in a half price machine.

 

[RobertK]

Okay RobertK,

I've mentioned about DB60 earlier and I also send you a personal message with the price that we have in Finland and it should be the same in Holland, I quess. How are you compering the prices? Indigo is between (new) 200.000 € - 500.000 € depending what model you want, NexPress 2100 - 3600 are beginning from 250.000 €, NexPress M700 is about 185.000 € and iGen4 is between you and them! ;-)

What comes to color, the Indigo and Meteor DB60 have the same Fogra certification so I would say the quality is there also in a half price machine.

Hey TWingvist. I totally forgot your message. Maybe because i saw the price and knew it wasnt feasible ;-) But yes is it less then the rest. But we dont have the volume for such a machine and are looking into machines to maybe grow to the volume of the higher end machines.

We know its an investment, but currently we just do books, not even variable printing. And to get those machines profitable you need to do ALOT of books, or do more things besides that.

I did see some Canon 6000 prints yesterday, which were very nice. Getting quotes on it this week. And im going to see prints of the Ricoh C900 en Oce 665 next week.